Comment by Windchaser | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Windchaser | Hacker News Reader

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> You're telling men to use "conventionally" unattractive women as target practice, implying they will be more receptive to attention, presumably due to a general lack of it. Then your advice is to leave these women behind once you've gotten what you needed, and to then seek women more attractive to you.

I dunno, this seems to be interpreting the comment in the worst way possible. Like, assuming bad faith.

The comment above suggested that guys approach less-attractive women until they "build some confidence". This is not about the woman's receptivity to attention, this is about the guy's confidence or lack thereof. It makes sense: when confidence is worse, the conversation is more awkward and stilted, and that awkwardness is more likely to reinforce the idea that talking to strangers is a waste of time.

The charitable interpretation would be this: that you practice talking to strangers in scenarios that feel safe. Gradually, work up towards your goal - making new friends, talking to people you want to date, etc.

I halfway agree with you. The comments underlying advice isn't that awful. But he really shot himself in the foot with the wording, and so I don't think it's weird that people take issue with the wording.

As I pointed out in another comment, he could've just argued for approaching people without expectations and intending it to go anywhere and suggested that a way of doing that is to approach people you're not attracted to.

In other words, make it about your intent and preference rather than about ranking women by appearance.

The reason why I suggest these co-workers approach ugos/low-mids: They tell me that they are too nervous to approach women "on their level" (whatever that means). (1) Most people are more comfortable to speak to strangers that they do not find (particularly) attractive. (2) Who knows... maybe that ugo/low-mid suddenly becomes a lot more attractive when you see their personality. Maybe they are funny, unusually kind/friendly/intelligent, or adventurous.

The Red Pill movement is about social manipulation to sleep with as many women as possible or have an endless string of situationships. My advice aims to help them to learn to meet strangers... and maybe spark a romantic connection. It is exactly how I dated my younger days... long before dating apps (when it was less brutal).

Again, my issue wasn't so much about your recommendation, but about how you presented it. As you can see in the responses, the way you worded it drew attention away from the advice and to that.

Honestly, I don't care what the Internet thinks. Think deeply about PUA (specifically techniques from "The Game"): It is about deceiving women to increase your value as a man. The goal is to sleep with as many women as possible. I reject it. The world that grew up in was about dating 1-5 women in long term relationships, before choosing a wife. Most of PUA will still benefit you in this same search. My point: Intent matters. Never would I suggest to these young men: Your goal is to "climb the ladder" to keep sleeping with hotter and hotter women. The goal is to find a good person that you have a strong romantic connection.

Another way to think about this problem: A kitchen knife can be used to cut food or can be used to murder someone. I'm looking at the kitchen knife from the perspective of "oh, this is useful in the kitchen", not as a murder weapon. Ultimately, PUA is the kitchen knife of hetero dating.

Erik von Markovik, aka Mystery, the mentor Strauss mentions in The Game and host of The Pickup Artist, also has an AI girlfriend now named Miss Shira Always and released a book written and narrated by her. You can purchase it and receive 27 original AI-created songs about their love. This should tell you all you need to know about the "pickup artist" field, but you have to also understand these techniques are inherently antisocial, and when practiced at scale by men toward women, are misogynistic at the core.

The only advice worth picking up in books like that is advice you'd also find if you joined Toastmasters or some other prosocial organization: Learn about yourself, learn how to express yourself, develop confidence, speak to lots of people and be helpful when possible. Make friends and expand your network simply by being social. Doors will open left and right for you and you will be introduced to plenty of women, without requiring you to develop techniques meant to socially manipulate people.

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