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Comment by Jgrubb | Hacker News Reader

I'm biased as well, being American. I think I'd much rather be middle class in Europe than the USA as well. Middle class in the US is a constant feeling of the ladder dissolving just beneath you.

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Get off Facebook and get on Wikipedia.

Or go visit there.

Even in rich cities, it felt like I was in the lower middle class area in my suburban area.

I haven't been on Facebook in 15 years. I spend every night on Wikipedia, following random links. I worked for a Parisian company for a decade and have been around western EU more than most Americans.

Probably dial back your assumptions a little bit. I've earned my opinions just as much as you have.

So is this cope?

I moved to Europe a couple of years ago from the US. I paid 100 euro for an mri the other day. I absolutely feel richer in the EU and am shocked at the prices in the US whenever I go back for work.

But I’m fortunate to make a US salary living in the EU.

The price of a sandwich in Paris vs ... idk, Pennsylvania is a perfect summary to me. 4 euro vs $18

If you're middle class in America and you'd like to be middle class in Europe, you can just do that.

People always make this case, if you're not satisfied then move. As someone who has changed countries twice and continents once, I can attest it's not an easy or convenient thing to do. Money or lifestyle is one thing, but you're also leaving behind family and culture. Statements like these are so dismissive to that struggle that it's almost offensive to me.

The point is that middle class Americans can become middle class Europeans, but middle class Europeans can't become middle class Americans, because they can't afford it.

I didn't say it'd be easy. I'm just pointing out that only one of the two groups being discussed has a real choice in the matter.

That is the entire point I'm trying to make. You can win the argument by being pedantic about the precise thing you were saying, or we can recognize the broader implication of what you are suggesting people to do. Only economically viable means nothing when it comes to life decisions.

Why do you think that middle class Europeans can't become middle class Americans? I know more than one example where that was no problem at all. It's not like a middle class American or European could just move and then not work and just live off of their savings. They move and get a job (ideally the other way around), jobs tend to pay relative to the living cost of where you live.

That's why people compare spending power instead of how much money you earn, because that comparison is meaningless.

Because if a middle class American sells their middle class home and buys a European middle class home, they have an extra half million left over. And if a middle class European sells their middle class home and tries to buy an American middle class home, they're half a million short.

Neither the US nor Europe has such a unified housing market that this could be a reliable statement. In Europe it differs greatly within countries, and there are many countries. In the US it also varies greatly within each state and there are many states.

Also at this point both have seen such negative upward trends in housing prices that the assumption that someone placed in the middle class owns a home at all (without any debt attached) is questionable. (But that's just a comment and besides the point)

No one said it was easy, just that it's possible, saying this as someone who's also moved continents.

I have no idea why you're being downvoted, because you're absolutely right. I have circumstances that make moving abroad something like a nuclear option. I could take my job with me, but that's the least of it.

Because some HNers like to pretend discussions on single axis are fruitful.

I have to imagine in several years when you have a wife/husband and kids and ageing parents your views will change.

The point is about economic mobility - of course, people get tied down as they get older.

Middle class people from wealthy nations who move to poor countries are relatively rich by the standards of their new country. Middle class people from poor countries who move to rich countries are relatively poor by the standards of their new country.

Depends. If you are middle class in US with little savings, moving to Europe will probably make your life worse as relative wages are lower for many professions (e.g software eng).

If you are middle class in EU and have little savings, moving to US will do the opposite and you would be better off.

Your comparison holds for the inverse: getting most of your quality of life from static wealth.

Define worse/better.

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