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Comment by netfortius | Hacker News Reader

There is no coming back from all this, is it?

Sure there is, many countries have successfully thrown off personalist authoritarian regimes and transitioned to being inclusive democracies with a strong rule of law. The problem is that Americans are very far from realizing that they have a problem, the magnitude of their problem, and the time and effort it'll take to fix this problem. It's a generational project that starts with throwing most of the current cabinet in jail, however this view is very far from the mainstream and things will keep getting worse before more people come to the same conclusion.

um, we can't even get people to do something as simple as stop using X

then he takes all those billions and further funds the alt-right

democracy is pretty much done even if Dems get the Senate

actually he may stomp on the accelerator pedal if the Senate does shift

btw it's not "many" only a very few countries have done that

we're literally one Supreme Court justice away from the country becoming the christian taliban

capitalism doesn't need democracy, MANY countries prove that, they even prefer knowing who to bribe to get exactly what they want

  > they even prefer knowing who to bribe to get exactly what they want

look its just a standard transaction fee set to market rates (if you are a ferenghi)

For real? You still have feudal titles and a monarch. In your land some humans are literally created as more human than others. Your government literally asks the monarch for permission to do democracy. But you'll lecture Americans on throwing off the strong man.

Totes for reals, yes, because I understand the difference between de jure and de facto.

The failure mode you're observing in the US is that one partisan hack can write a memo in the correct linguistic style, submit it to a council with a majority of other partisan hacks, and like magic anything can become legal or illegal, because everything was done in the correct linguistic style. Actual practice does not matter. There are lots of examples of this over the last two years, perhaps the case against the 14th amendment is a good starting point to see how this works.

> There are lots of examples of this over the last two years

And an equal number in your country. Do not lecture Americans on freedom and virtue. Your country has its share of shortcomings, your economy structured to a higher degree to benefit a class of oligarchs. Your politicians are liars and thieves like any other. Wait your turn.

As I said in my original comment:

> The problem is that Americans are very far from realizing that they have a problem

So I understand and I certainly agree that you're with the majority of Americans thinking everything's basically fine.

American here, I'm not sure you're understanding the world we're living in right now based on this comment.

Never in recorded history have authoritarians ceded power without violence. Ever.

Viktor Orbán, 2026 Slovakia, 2018 Mozambique, 2004

There's more...

Don't you have an amendment that allows you to fix it all?

That would only work if we agreed on what a replacement regime would look like. Faith in our regime is low, but the 'revolutionary' replacements are the DSA on one side, who mean well but are unbelievably naive[0] and on the other... Idk ancap wignats or something? Before the people equipped to put that amendment to use do so, I think there needs to be some sort of idea of what they're fighting for. There's a lot of stuff about how we gotta fight for democracy, but it's democracy itself that got us here.

One might point out the yale study that shows we don't have democracy, but if that's true, idk how one would implement a democracy that doesn't get co-opted the way ours has. Most of the ideas I see are not actually democratic. There's a lotof "well, democracy would work if only people / ideas that agree with my correct political views should be allowed to power" which isn't democracy, it's authoritarianism. Plato established a long time ago that benevolent authoritarianism is preferable to democracy, but the problem is humans aren't really good at implementing it. When authoritarians of any ilk get power, they tend to step on someone, no matter how good their intentions are.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RWsHLvBntg In this interview Megan Romer, who is basically party leadership, explains 'Authority in the DSA is when we vote at the convention every two years'. The lack of structure is extremely ripe for bad actors.

Look I don't want to be pedantic, but this problem is exactly why the 2nd constitution of the United states framed up a representative democracy with strong federal government. It's a middle ground between a mob and a strong man. Close enough to the people to course-correct in perilous times (good track record for that, graven circumstances the likes of which we've no living memory) and far enough removed from the masses to guide us as a peer among nations. This only fails if the traditional Republic's "Rule of Law" is eroded to the point that the law becomes irrelevant.

DSA is the Coachman in pinocchio who promises a new life on Pleasure Island. Eventually the bill comes due.

What does DSA promise that hasn't been demonstrated to work in other countries?

What countries?

How can I answer that when you haven’t said which promises you claim they make that you question?

We have a judiciary actually

Are you sure?

Yes? Supreme courts pretty off rn but there are still a number of wins happening in lower courts. The party of law (team red) is making a mockery of itself that I won’t forget in my lifetime.

Wins on paper. The illegal acts continue.

Nah.

We have an Executive, Legisla...handful of outdated pants shitters, and SCOTUS

Oh and 10s of millions of <50 year old adults that outnumber the >50 cohort. Yet they're too afraid of an frail olds doddering off into their own inner world live on TV.

Thing is rest of the world been saying this about the US for decades but censored TV full of imagery like one might see painted over buildings in countries run by Dear Leaders; Americans are effectively socially the same low effort smooth brains as those in terror nations they bemoan.

party-line voters would be really mad if they could read this

Uhoh, looks like some party-line voters have HN accounts

The older politicians bring history, decorum and ceremony to the Congress.

I’m not a fan of term limits because they would allow megacorporations to buy influence too easily (with free retries every X years).

Establishment has flaws for sure, but de-stabilization is not one of them.

Steady state can only be achieved with balance.

I'm not a fan of term limits for many reasons, but the Democratic Party's strict adherence to decorum and ceremony are a part of why we're in the mess we are. They care more about decorum and process than actually helping people and stopping the rise of fascism in our country. I'm confident the next Democratic administration will try to "return to normal" and "reach across the aisle" just like every time they get power to the detriment of their voters.

Their strict adherence to decorum is intentional self selection and preference for preserving their own gains in life

They're people solving for the same biological imperatives we all are

Like gamergate "Dems this and GOP that" is just propaganda. Intentional obfuscating of the plain old biological motive that underlies their being

Conjure all the gibberish philosophy we want there's no waving off that imperative is still there

Part of this is that some people whine about reaching across party lines and working together when they start losing. Biden's responsibility to keep the country together and pander to far right, when shoe is othe foot it is about owning the libs.

Tell us you aren't paying attention without telling us you are not paying attention.

Wtf are you even on about?

But we don't have balance.

The typical age in Senate is "older than dirt" and it's not much better in the House.

That imbalance is fostering de-stabilization; maybe not for you cause you filled your bag or have generational wealth? Cause everyone I know has seen their wages go down 30-40% and grocery bill go up 50-60%

Could have fooled me.

Why not? IMHO it's just a phase. It's up to you what would the phase transition will end up look like.

No, and “all of this” is essentially the entire history of the United States. We’ve built a society on genocide, land theft, slavery and imperialist slaughter across the globe. What we are seeing now is the reflection of our true selves.

I think the answer starts with the US breaking apart into many smaller countries and the natural decolonization happening via demographic trends.

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