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Comment by hamsterbase | Hacker News Reader

There are already 100 million HarmonyOS devices in China, so you could say it's now a three-way rivalry. The apps I use every day basically all have native HarmonyOS versions, including even foreign apps like Tesla and Sam's Club.

I've actually been using HarmonyOS for half a year now, and it feels pretty good — the notifications and system smoothness are on par with iOS. The reason I don't use an iPhone is that I need NFC access control, which iOS doesn't support.

Huawei has invested a large amount of manpower to station people in major companies to help develop HarmonyOS. I think they have already broken the vicious cycle of "no users -> no apps -> even fewer users."

Moreover, in the current AI era, it has become easier for Chinese developers to port software to HarmonyOS. For example, Moonlight, the streaming software I often use, has several natively customized and optimized versions available in the HarmonyOS app store.

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It’s interesting to see how they got there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS:

“From 2019 to 2024, versions 1 to 4.3 (4.5 TV) of the operating system were built by integrating the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) with OpenHarmony, allowing it to support both HarmonyOS and Android apps. The current iteration of HarmonyOS became known as HarmonyOS NEXT (later it was renamed HarmonyOS 5 in launched of Pura X). HarmonyOS NEXT was announced on August 4, 2023, and officially launched on October 22, 2024. It also replaced the OpenHarmony multi-kernel system with its own HongMeng Kernel at its core and removed all Android code. Since version 5, HarmonyOS only supports apps in its native "App" format.

HarmonyOS 5.x+ both discards the common Unix-like Linux kernel and replaces the previous multiple-kernel, kernel agnostic system from OpenHarmony with its own bespoke HarmonyOS microkernel as a single framework.”

⇒ this shows it’s possible to create a new stack. It’s not Linux, though, and I think a large reason for this succeeding is that it started in the Chinese market after the US sanctioned Huawei.

> this shows it’s possible to create a new stack. It’s not Linux, though, and I think a large reason for this succeeding is that it started in the Chinese market after the US sanctioned Huawei.

Even so, I think it's helpful in that it weakens the duopoly. If app builders are getting used to building apps for other platforms than Android/iOS, it hopefully also becomes easier for others to gain some foothold.

Especially given the heavy commissions and other developer-hostile behaviour of these two. They've been essentially treating devs like shit and IMO a reckoning has been coming for a while now. Of course, you do have to meet the users where they are, at least up to a point.

...by being even less open than Android. It's not an improvement

Further fragmenting the user base into a third closed ecosystem is good because app builders have to build 3 versions so...now they'll be more willing to build a fourth version?

That logic doesn't follow. This is bad in all meaningful ways for open source.

Or, perhaps, developers would not require you to use an app when a website would perfectly suffice.

And it also has new programming languages ArkTS (Typescript inspired) and now in the process of having Canjie, as their own "Swift".

> HongMeng Kernel

Wait do they mean this Hong Meng?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Meng

If so, this is one of the funniest parts of Zhuangzhi.

The Chinese government literally pushed companies to develop app for HarmonyOS [0]. Have fun finding out what happens if you don't.

I can't tell you whether this is a good idea, but I am sure this will never happen outside China, which is supposedly what the question is about.

Also bear in mind that Huawei is likely worth more than a trillion dollars. There aren't many companies at that scale.

[0] https://www.sz.gov.cn/en_szgov/news/latest/content/post_1117...

> The Chinese government literally pushed companies to develop app for HarmonyOS [0].

Like the U.S. government is not pushing and investing its own companies, providing incentives, funding etc. etc. It's what sovereign governments are supposed to do.

> Have fun finding out what happens if you don't.

What is that even supposed to mean? You're going to a camp if you don't have a HarmonyOS app? That is just something that propagandists append to every post about China as if it means something. Get better propaganda, this is old and tired. I can stay random shit like the US is about to livestream an execution by a firing squad too, see?

> Like the U.S. government is not pushing and investing its own companies, providing incentives, funding etc. etc. It's what sovereign governments are supposed to do.

What's your point? My comment is not in contradiction to that.

> That is just something that propagandists append

You can do name calling all day long but that's not meaningful and will get you banned.

I strongly suggest that you reply with content with more substance in it, or just not reply at all.

Microsoft and Intel have been pushed for years and still are in the US.

So? How is that related to this topic which is mobile OS?

> The White House considers anyone that uses the term, “Artificial Intelligence,” as opposed to the highly accepted new and more accurate term, “Super Intelligence,” THE ENEMY! President DONALD J. TRUMP

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/1174061766043...

OP is asking about Linux phones. HarmonyOS doesn't even run Linux kernel at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS#:~:text=HarmonyOS%20...

So there's already a viable alternative to the duopoly, but it's not necessarily Linux?

Another walled garden is not a viable alternative to the duopoly. Especially from a totalitarian government.

HarmonyOS (especially meaning Huawei phones) is pretty much dead outside China, that's like saying WeChat is relevant messaging app outside China

if you can't run all your favorite bank apps in your phone any phone is dead nowadays, no matter whether it is Linux or HarmonyOS

and seems EU is fine with keeping Apple/Google duopoly in app verification, so although you can use European bank and pay with QR codes without MC/Visa, you still need US company verifying your phone so you can use European bank app, sad state of current things

wechat is a pretty good app

gojek too

singapore also has some pretty great ideas

go travel a bit, there's an entire world out there that isn't waiting around

when i go to the mall here, i counted 6 korean copycat shops lol

asia is living a completely different lifestyle than us, and its popular even with us, especially with women, and its actually good, and we're still here saying asian shit is irrelevant

> wechat is a pretty good app

And millions of Chinese bash it everyday. Shit storage efficiency, stagnated UX experience, very closed ecosystem and external link blocking, I could go on.

that's how you know it's good. bad apps have rather smaller daily user-bashing numbers

Not if it is shoveled down to your throat.

always one of the fattest apps on my phone

hey apple, when are we getting expanded memory, maybe better battery? oh we're still stuck under 4000mAh, cool cool cool

I've lived in various Asian countries for the last 10 years, but I've never seen Wechat used except for communication and payments with people from mainland China.

Same with Gojek. They tried launching in other countries, but it never caught on outside of Indonesia, where yes it's huge and awesome.

Grab, on the other hand, has been very successful internationally.

> go travel a bit, there's an entire world out there that isn't waiting around

> asia is living a completely different lifestyle than us, and its popular even with us, especially with women, and its actually good, and we're still here saying asian shit is irrelevant

I lived in China 5+ years and spent plenty of time in other Asian countries travelling, so how to say it politely - stop talking about "us" and preaching me about lifestyle in Asia if you are completely clueless.

WeChat is shit app pushed down the Chinese throats (I remember when QQ was still the king), because it doesn't have competition in China and you can't really exist in China without it, closed sourced with no E2E encryption for starters, there is reason why pretty much nobody outside China/Chinese community uses this actively spying app.

So yes, if by Asian shit, you mean HarmonyOS and WeChat, then yes, Asian shit is irrelevant, because pretty much nobody outside Asia uses it for good reasons (HarmonyOS because it is unusable if you wanna use normal banking apps and most of the other apps relying on GMS besides those very very few ported apps or using some virtual machine workarounds, personally I don't need banking apps and used smartphones without gapps for the last 10 years, but I am realist realizing I may be among like <0.5% Android users in Europe, completely irelevant negligible number).

The reality is that The Western Civilization, or however you frame and name your own personal lifestyle, is not as huge and dominant as it might seem to you. Every countries have own sets of apps and webs. __1984 is a work of fiction__; there is no united Oceania, Eurasia or Eastasia in real life.

My phone can't run any of my bank's apps, is it dead too?

I appreciate your intended point was probably more specific, perhaps 'will not be a mass market success in the west', but there is a great diversity of people in the world and many of them have different requirements of a phone

we're quickly getting into "we're sorry, you can't access the site unless you verify with android/iphone" so yes, that would be essentially dead

for 99.5% potential buyers yes, it is, if it can't run bank apps (or other apps requiring GMS), personally I don't use banking apps on phone but I realize I am extreme negligible minority, which is why I said "pretty much dead", that "pretty much" covers that <0.5% users

> if you can't run all your favorite bank apps in your phone any phone is dead nowadays

I guess I've been running dead phones for ::checks notes:: a quarter century now? I actually don't even know if my primary banking institution (a regional credit union) has an app to begin with. It's never occurred to me to need it.

You don't represent 99% of users.

Reddit is that way ->

I like the confidence with which you through around "99%" when there is ample research suggesting that the percentage of smart phone users (at least in the US) who use their phone for banking is much closer to half.

I'm not offended at the idea that someone might want to bank from their phone, just, a lot of us don't have that need. Having my ability to run the software I want on my phone taken away, just to support corporations insisting that they be able to control my device for a function I don't need, however, is offensive.

"banking apps" is just simplification for apps requiring GMS or Google verification, (this whole thread is about HarmonyOS and Huawei devices which are not supporting GMS) you can ask Android users in Europe if they would be willing to buy/use phone without GMS and explain to them what does it mean and I can guarantee you percentage unwilling to buy phone without GMS will be much closer to 99% than 50% you claim

btw. ~60% users in Czechia pay with phone already (though like 95% with bank card at same time), I am not one of them, but I won't deny the reality

There's also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KaiOS that developed from FirefoxOS and powers something like 100 million feature phones in the developing world.

Have they support copy paste between apps? Since WhatsApp abandoned the platform I figured it is in life support. Almost no one use SMS in developing worlds, it's WhatsApp all the way.

Oh, I didn't know WhatsApp had dropped it. You're right, that's probably end of the line for it, but maybe the OS will be resurrected in some new form.

How well do Google Maps and WhatsApp work on the latest versions of HarmonyOS?

I assume it requires some mind of Android compatibility layer that won't pass Play Integrity checks..

Does Huawei provide an Android virtual machine with Google frameworks built in? When I was traveling in Japan, I used Google Maps, and for daily use, Chrome and 1Password all worked fine.

In my daily use, only three apps run in the virtual machine: 1Password, Steam, and Chrome. They all run normally, but they're a bit laggy.

Huawei has a Google Mobile Services (GMS) equivalent called HMS, which acts as a compatibility layer and prevents Apps from throwing errors when running on their Android APK-support layer.

However, as I understood, in China HarmonyOS next has no Anroid-emulation layer (which is probably a wise decision if you want to drive domestic app-developers to support your platform...)

If it's distributed primarily in China, I'm not sure either of those matter.

Google Maps in China used to be reportedly unusable, and I'm sure there's local maps that have better data even if Google figured out how to manage the coordinate issues.

WhatsApp is blocked by the great firewall (or at least I haven't heard that that stopped) and has strong domestic competitors.

It would have to be somewhat more global than only in China though. After all Google's spyphones also operates globally, more or less, even if Google is a ruthless US tool for abuse of other markets. IMO we need to get rid of all companies though. That's not realistic, but it really should happen. I just do not trust any of these private entities anymore; verifiable open source and open hardware at all times should become the new standard. Is anyone really using Win11? Ever since the recall-spy feature I knew I could not commit to it; whether I can disable it or not is not a useful distinction since there is no more trust in that private blob, now supported via AI slop.

Except that HarmonyOS is not Linux based or on Android [0]

In fact, it is a competitor against both iOS, Android and Linux-based devices.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS

I bought a Huawei phone because of the hardware. I'm using the Pura X foldable phone.

The 16:10 screen makes it very convenient for watching videos and reading e-books.

The chip is the Kirin 9020. Although it's only equivalent to Android flagship chips from a few years ago, it doesn't feel laggy in daily use.

More importantly, Huawei products eclipsed Apple in design in 2026

sounds like heresy up in here california echo chamber

Could you provide some examples? I’m genuinely curious.

watch and airpods, personal experience

Looking at their website, most of their headphones look like knock-offs of Apple/Beats. They have a watch that looks like an Apple Watch knock-off as well.

I can’t give a company credit for good design when it looks like they are ripping off another company’s designs and design language on a regular basis.

That's what the Chinese do with everything. That's why Apple is so secretive about its plans. They day their new offerings arrive in the stores the Chinese makers buy them and start copying the design warts and all.

So far it has worked nicely since you can buy stuff that looks the part but costs a tenth the original's price.

They start getting the plans on how to clone them before they even hit the stores. That's why we saw the Xiaomi 18 Fold launch with the exact same dimensions as the iPhone Duo... before the Duo. Xiaomi got the inside scoop on the parts they were sourcing, and maybe even from the factories prepping. They even named in the "18" assuming, Apple would use the iPhone 18 branding across the whole line up. They can't even make up their own names in China.

As long as Apple is manufacturing phones in China, the only thing they can surprise people with is the software. They really need to push harder on getting some manufacturing back in the US if they want any hope of keeping things a secret and not having knock-offs already on the market before launch day.

lmao weak troll attempt. From the rear, the Huawei Mate 90 Pro Max looks like a a lock on a hotel room door. Google it and see what I mean

Is looks that important to you?

I just looked it and while it looks different, that's not bad. As long as it works, I'm fine with what I have.

Did you read the comment I was replying to? The commenter claimed Huawei had the lead in design. I begged to differ. I'd accept the design of the 90 Pro Max on a $300 phone, but a $2,000 phone? lol

That's your personal opinion on a piece of hardware. If that's so important for you, you can look to other alternatives.

...and in my comment, I kindly disagreed with you. I have used many things with great enjoyment which were called ugly by many people.

It's OK and natural to have different opinions and priorities, and hardware design is not a first priority as long as it's uncomfortable on my checklist.

As a side note, apparently, you can add an extra camera module with a 1" sensor to that "lock" you seem to dislike. Considering the best camera is the one you have, having an additional camera with better sensor for people who are inclined to dabble into photography is a great thing.

...and I'm contemplating on how can I take my mirrorless with me during flights in a compact way even if I have an iPhone.

Design was important enough to you to post your own comment talking about it and your own preferences, and how important it is to competition, so why are you questioning it's importance to someone else?

Because I see design as a proxy to build quality and ergonomics. I'm not shopping for looks while getting my electronic devices, I'm shopping for quality and longevity of the thing in question.

If it's built well, dependable, ergonomic and delivers on the promise it's written on the box, I'm perfectly happy with what I got.

Yes, I have my tastes, like everybody else, but I don't satisfy my taste first and try to fill the specs to that taste. On the contrary, I start with the features and quality level I want, and go from there.

> Because I see design as a proxy to build quality and ergonomics

It isn't a good proxy. Couple examples: Apple sold laptops with wonky keyboards for years and still sells a mouse that charges from the bottom when the battery dies.

While I never owned these Macs with butterfly keyboards, I have used them, and yes. Apple botched bad on that keyboard. They made it right later, though.

While I also understand that Apple Magic Mouse looks atrocious with that port on the bottom, just charging it for two minutes gives you 8 hours of runtime. Why can’t people plug it in while going to get a coffee and unplug and finish the day with that quick charge? Then you can leave it charging for the night.

If you really want some bad examples, look at some popular cars. Many of them don’t care about your finger, and happily chop it off if you put it the wrong place at the wrong time.

> Design was important enough to you to post your own comment talking about it and your own preferences, and how important it is to competition, so why are you questioning it's importance to someone else?

I think you might be conflating design and cosmetics.

Design is objective, cosmetics is subjective. I like good design even if I don't care much for cosmetics.

Read "The Design of Everyday Things" , Donald E. Norman. This book is routinely recommended here, with good reason.

I have a Mate 80 RS Ultimate Design and I think it looks beautiful in person, but as you know, Chinese and Western design preferences are very different, just look at their EV's (and how western brands are copying their designs)

I don't know what you mean, looks more like camera lens from front

While I prefer Apple's design language partly because it's rooted from Sony and I love how Sony does this since eternity, I strongly support having multiple top-notch designers and builders from different countries.

This is what genuine competition is and drives things forward.

Isn't HarmoniousOS just a blatant Android OS clone, with serial numbers and licenses filed off? I remember ArsTechnica reported on that waaaay back when it was released.

HarmonyOS NEXT released 2024 is a fully original kernel, the first version was off label android

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