Comment by horsawlarway | Hacker News Reader

Comment by horsawlarway | Hacker News Reader

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I'm in the US and I did my own install.

It's the regulation cost that's really hurting us.

Just the required paperwork for the permit in my region cost ~2.5k. structural engineer was 800, architecture diagram was 800, certified electrician stamp on the plans was 800.

Add in the extra cost to facilitate RSD (~5k after mlpe devices, and extra wiring) and tack on the cost for utility interconnection agreements.

Then deal with the NEC requiring UL listed items with no/very little cross certification with things like CE which effectively means you can't buy equipment from China, at least not without a US shop taking a huge markup for branding/certs.

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Overall, it's just a mess. I walked away from the project (completed, all approved) with a huge dose of skepticism for the permitting/certification/approval process.

11.2kw in panels, ~12kwh lfp battery, split phase 240v install - ~28k usd.

Of which ~10k was regulation driven, and doesn't change much by install size.

This is, as you say, absolutely bananas level of regulation. Here in the UK most panels are "permitted development" (bypass all the local government permitting entirely, as for small sheds and fences etc). There are two utility schemes, one for <3.6kW which costs £30 (G98) and a more complicated one that costs a few hundred £ for larger ones (G99).

"Balcony solar" (<800W) with absolutely zero paperwork (edit: I'm wrong, still needs G99) has just arrived to the UK.

Howver the costs per panel of the approved version is far higher than the same panels in Europe. You can’t pick up 400W for $150 at the supermarket.

The specific exclusion of batteries too is a sop to the industry. It’s a step forward, but needs to go further.

Is that the cost of the panel or the cost (again) of the approval? Do they turn out to be the same panels with a different sticker?

No cost of approval for plugin solar

Currently in the U.K. they have to have U.K. appeal not just standard eu approval. Hopefully this will be fixed by next year and prices will Be more reasonable.

Hopefully too regulators will Change to allow battery Storage as long as it’s not pore than 800W inverter.

So what I'm hearing is that when it comes to cheap, clean, consumer-empowering energy, the USA tends to regulate, not innovate.

A lot of people in the U.S. are trying to innovate. I think the problem is the fossil fuel industry has been paying government, probably for decades, to implement legal roadblocks at all levels, from individual homes up to states and regions, to non-fossil fuel energy. I think they've also had a hand, at least at the propaganda level, in pushing back on electric vehicles.

Personally, I'd love to see the United States, and the rest of the world, decrease its reliance on oil. We won't get off it in any of our lifetimes, but we should move in that direction. I like diversifying. Any bit helps. Solar in Australia and Arizona. Maybe less so in northern Maine. Wind turbines where there's wind. I personally don't have any aesthetic objection to them. I think they look kind of cool. And certainly better than smokestacks. And so on.

"Plug in solar" (as "Balcony solar" is called in here in the UK) needs G98, not G99 approval and is free for plug in (<8kw). This is just one form to fill out, and the DNO can't refuse approval (assuming you fill out the form). Think of it more as registration than approval.

Current lowest costs from national retailers that I've found (been looking today as it happens!) is City Plumbing - £336 for 475w, £480 for 1050w (panels with 800w max inverter).

Were there any parts of the process you felt could be reasonably chipped away at through improved beaureaucratic processes or lightweight advocacy?

I've been doing some advocacy work related to balcony solar mostly from a conceptual standpoint but am a renter and don't know much about the actual costs and process behind installing roof panels. I'm curious to know whether there are any low-hanging fruit we could organize around to reduce the regulatory burden on the consumer.

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