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Comment by FabHK | Hacker News Reader

> Don't give out your account numbers

Is that a US thing? In Europe, companies have their account numbers on their letter heads and websites, and people are quite comfortable giving out their account numbers.

https://www.quelle.de/service-hilfe/bezahlung-finanzierung/k...

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That's strange because all you need for direct debit authorisation is the account number and name, and a PNG image of a physical signature.

That’s definitely not the case in Europe. There’s no way to start a debit operation out of my account other than:

1. Something electronic that kicks of the thing where I need to enter the “ID codes” from device or app; 2. Being present at the bank and having been ID’d;

There definitely is, that’s how SEPA direct debit works.

yeah. I am also unsure why we do not see more fraud here. Is it because of the 8 weeks of no questions asked refund possibility for payers and up to 13 months for unauthorized/fraudulent transactions? Or does the 5 business days lead time to get direct-debit play a role?

It is precisely because of the refund policy. It is so generous that, per my understanding, most SEPA direct debit fraud is abusing the refunds. Most banks do not require much supporting evidence for claiming the debit to be unauthorized, and unlike credit card disputes, the merchant doesn't even get to make a statement in the process.

Only if I allow it via banking website, while logged in (or come in person), right?

No, only a "recorded consent" is required, usually a physical signature or a record of you agreeing to this via online form.

In Japan, that authorisation needs to come together with an official certification, something that’s only valid for 3 months and you have to get it yourself from the local justice branch office.

Why don't we see more fraud using this technique?

So I can walk to a bank, speak to the teller, and withdraw from any account number by showing them that signature? I think not

Surely just knowing someone's account number can't be enough? Sweden's biggest bank uses your national identification number (equivalent to social security number) as your checking account number, and Sweden's national identification numbers are public information.

I don't know how it works in Sweden. Some accounts have more security. In the end if I know the right numbers (which may not be your national ID) I could drain your bank account - but I would be caught if I tried so even hardened criminals won't attempt it.

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