Israel has a lot of enemies that going against them. Which is why they have incentive to be good at this - to attack back. Corporate attempts are just ways to make money.
I'm going to stay out of the political issue of what any actor should do.
Why do you think that is?
lol downvotes
Certainly some is antisemitism. To imply, as you have, that there is 0% legitimacy to any other reasons to hate the behavior of the current Israeli government is just as pro-genocide as you claim antisemitism.
Most people I know who oppose Israel's actions in Gaza have no problem with Jewish people; many themselves are Jewish.
In my political opinion Israel is an artificially created state which is why it's so unstable and we should simply walk away and cut our losses on this. I believe my opinion is the prevailing populist opinion too so y'all have to contend with that.
There needs to be some compromise between our points of view or else we'll continue to get more war and violence. I think our country needs to recognize our responsibility for this mess and should offer land in North America of equivalent value for any Zionist refugees and then leave the poor people of that land alone. I ultra extremists would feel right at home in the Catskills lol.
...are also widely considered bad actors. Yet, it isn't "islamophobia" when you criticize Iran or "anti-Orthodox" when you call Russia to account.
Curiously, however, when you similarly criticize the actions of this specific Israeli government and its leaders, you are slandered with the term "antisemite" and there are orgs that exist to doxx you and get you fired from your job.
Isn't that weird?
Thankfully, in many such cases, we can call the skyman to rescue:
What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this—go and study it!
Pegasus: How a Spy in Your Pocket Threatens the End of Privacy, Dignity, and Democracy by Lauret Richard
A lot of the immediate neighbors attacked Israel at its birth, and further away countries just seem to hate Israel due to religion/ethnicity/populism (?), countries like Pakistan, Malaysia, etc.
That easy huh
She said, "Gary, I saw this very interesting documentary about Hitler's shenanigans." [audience laughter] Shenanigans! [he chuckles] Not even close!
And, as a Jew, I'm obviously not oversensitive, but when people trivialize Hitler's monkey-business... [audience laughter] When the Nazis' hijinks, tomfoolery, and ballyhoo is understated, I feel it does a disservice to the millions who were, ahhh, inconvenienced by Hitler's mischief! [audience laughter]
Tomato, tomahto. Shenanigans, genocide.
(Gary Gulman bit)
funding Israel violates the separation of church and state.
That's not really an accurate characterization of the situation as much of the land was uninhabited/unregistered and/or state owned. The Negev desert for example is a large percentage of the total land area and was effectively uninhabited and not privately owned. Land ownership records at the time were also not particularly clear and often there were disputed claims. Also Israel has about 20% Arab/Palestinian citizens so it's not like they ethnically cleansed everyone like Egypt/Jordan did with the Jews in Gaza and the West Bank when Israel gained independence.
Like immagine if the rhetoric of Turkey was constantly talking about expanding to Greece and how the land of Greece is historically the Turks. Obviously that would make any Greek uneasy.
And the Greeks are historically famous for being quite laissez-faire when it comes to their eastern borders.
You can literally count with both hands the amount of people in Israel that advocate for “greater Israel”
States like Israel formally define their borders via mechanisms like peace deals that include bilateral recognition of agreed upon borders, like Israel has with Egypt and Jordan.
You can't realistically define borders properly otherwise, trying to define borders via unilateral declaration doesn't really work when there are 2 states next to each other, the borders ultimately need to be negotiated bilaterally between those states with both sides recognizing the same borders.
It's still a major propaganda point for Hezbollah.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_villages_in_Palestine
Lets zoom out: The whole world is about to enter a massive economic calamity, all because Americans got tricked into to electing the current knucklehead in the White House who took a ~$300 million bribe from an Israeli supporter to start this war.
None of those other conflicts will affect the entire world as what Israel has done.
From what you've said. It sounds like America is to blame here, tbh. $300mil is chump change in international bribery/development. If your establishment sells itself so cheaply, that's on America.
Besides, what's happening in Iran is minuscule compared to what happened during the 'War on Terror'. Play imperial games, win imperial prizes.
>Besides, what's happening in Iran is minuscule compared to what happened during the 'War on Terror'. Play imperial games, win imperial prizes.
Disagree, Those wars were confined to an adversary that was already a few rungs down on the ladder and couldn't crash the world economy. Iran is larger than Iraq + Afghanistan combined, has very large mountainous terrain which has a lot of easy hiding spots for drones/launchers, has the fourth largest collection of trained staff in the field of nuclear science (more than France) and even became space launch capable in 2009.
Thats is like night and day difference between Iraq/Afghanistan.
America needed to push cheap credit to boost confidence after 9/11, oil prices skyrocketed and haven't really come back down, hugely expensive wars were funded on debt. It's arguable that these all directly contributed to the GFC in substantial ways.
Global confidence in American leadership plummetted since these wars, and opened the door for China and 'multi-polarity' to enter the stage which has caused a new wave of proxy wars as powers are trying to get a piece of the new round of global empires. We have Russia making moves (apparently also kickstarted by Gadaffi's death), UAE and Turkey playing games in the Sahel, dicerolled team selections in Libya, China testing the waters in Myanmar and Laos, fuckeries in Venezuela and Cuba, Syria, Azerbaijan....
If anything, Israel have been baited into their current actions just like America were as new and old powers try and undo 'centuries of shame', etc.
Jan. 6th wasn't enough to disqualify him from a second term. The Epstein files weren't enough to get him removed from power. ICE wasn't enough to get him removed from power. Blatant disregard for the courts, threatening allies, arbitrary and insane tariff policies weren't enough to get him removed from power. No President in the history of the United States has been as secure in his position as Donald Trump is. The Supreme Court even went out of its way to make him immune from prosecution for any crime he might possibly commit while in office.
Israel may have (probably did) talk Trump into the war but Americans are the reason Trump was in that position to begin with, and he is there because Americans want him there.
The fact that they are still trying last minute fuel price manipulation in the hopes of converting some people into Trumps good graces proves that you are wrong. The country is very large. In 300+ million people you will find a large distribution of people in terms of skills and ability to discern fact from fiction. The bottom 10% of the distribution is still ~30 million people. Some % of these people vote. Lets not even consider the bottom 50% percentile.
>Jan. 6th wasn't enough to disqualify him from a second term. The Epstein files weren't enough to get him removed from power. ICE wasn't enough to get him removed from power. Blatant disregard for the courts, threatening allies, arbitrary and insane tariff policies weren't enough to get him removed from power.
You are conflating two different things. This is a failure of the system. This takes time to reform. There are attempts going back years. When you have so many layers of people who benefit from the existing status quo the only way you speed up the fix this without decades of sludging through roadblocks is if a national calamity happens that finally forces change(economic or other challenge). Otherwise too many people are insulated from the downsides of the system until they aren't anymore and then something changes.
>but Americans are the reason Trump was in that position to begin with, and he is there because Americans want him there.
Objectively this is a stated fact (unless you believe the election was rigged). But it glosses over so much nuance and context.
The same can be said of Brexit, Victor Orban, AfD, etc. All of these bad things were, nevertheless, boosted by Russian ops with the same general strategic goal in mind.
If Mossad is willing to give you a hundred million to make your startup a spyware company, you're obviously going to agree.
what a sad take.
I see lots of (maybe un-carefully-worded, maybe?) bashing of the actions of the current Israeli government, and its defense forces and intel apparatus.
That's 100% fair game, anywhere on the planet.
What's I don't see is the rank antisemitism you claim, except for a few outlier recently-created accounts.
The most despicable thing I see at scale in the conversations is the attempt to silence critics of Israel with slanderous accusations of antisemitism. It used to work, as a tactic, but it (like the "racism card") has been vastly overplayed and is rapidly losing its value.
I didn't attempt to silence anyone. I simply called out what I see. Silencing is what HN does when they moderate the Ukraine Russian discussions different than their newer standard for Israel Palestine.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50112408
"it's the shiftiness of jews'. Racism doesn't exist anymore, and calling these discussion anti-semitic is me just shielding isreal as a tactic. Fuck off.
>Racism doesn't exist anymore
Who said that?
>calling these discussion anti-semitic is me just shielding isreal as a tactic.
Yes, when the discussion is about the current government of Israel, the IDF, its intel apparatus, and their actions.
>Fuck off.
When you have no point, use anger.
Can't find the quoted phrase in the referred comment: did you just make it up or did he edit it out? Other than that, he made some observations about Judaism. Off-topic perhaps but nowhere near racist. Fuck off.
here's a nice response for you 'it's the shiftiness of jews'. There's your totally not racist as fuck/antisemitic dot connecting.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50112408
I kinda wish these threads wouldn't get 'cleaned up' so we can see the actual totally 'not antisemitic' HN discourse plain as day. I'm sure the above comment will get removed/cleaned up and you can go back to 'connecting the dots around crime statistics isn't a core part of racist cannon'.
Finding an understanding patterns and acting according to them is the most logical and natural thing a human or any life form can do. You would call someone speciest for not hugging a bear just to feel ideologically pure.
You might also look into the tale of the boy who cried wolf. The more you keep shoutin "antisemtism" in an attempt to shut down criticism the more people will learn to just ignore that word or ascribe to it a meaning far different from the one you want.