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Comment by matheusmoreira | Hacker News Reader

Thanks for the information. I do think that's pretty fucked up. I'd very much enjoy joining a community that doesn't have any censorship whatsoever, from any side.

I've resigned to the fact people are always going to identify some outgroup to shun. It sucks when you're that outgroup, and the intolerance is not at all limited to literal neonazism. Just being an AI user is enough to turn up the heat these days. So I'd rather nobody have that censorship privilege.

Basically, I don't like it when neonazis get a pass while those calling them out get banned. I don't like it when minorities get a pass either. It's the inconsistency that makes me lose all respect for the community.

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>enjoy joining a community that doesn't have any censorship whatsoever, from any side.

HN is absolutely not such a place, unfortunately, the local censorship policy is very strong.

I've been here for 10 years and I think HN is actually a pretty good free speech benchmark. It's true that HN has moderation, but I wouldn't call it "strict". Dang is a very patient moderator. If he banned someone there was probably a good reason for it.

What are you talking about, any rational and fair criticism of left-liberal policies or agendas gets you banned. Horror censorship and persecution of freedom of speech. What is it HN now.

No one is being banned on Mastodon for talking about using AI. I talk about using AI on Mastodon. You might get blocked by individual users who don't want AI in their feed (it's their feed, they make the rules). You might even get insulted; I haven't been, but I don't post AI-generated content without being intentional about what it is and why AI is being used to generate it. I've experimented with training LoRAs or building harnesses for all sorts of things, and I sometimes post about it, no big deal.

You might also get banned from some instances if you post AI-generated content without clearly labeling it as such; misinformation and disinformation is often something people report, and generative AI is often used for that.

It is misleading to say Mastodon is the same as X just "the other side". The policies on the most popular Mastodon instances can be summed up as "don't be a bigot" (i.e. don't use slurs, don't demean people for who they are...anti-semitism, anti-LGBTQ, racism, religious intolerance, will get you banned).

And, it would be misleading to say that users not wanting to look at what you post is censorship. Mastodon.social or mas.to or any of the other big instances are not going to ban you for talking about AI. But, you might catch some blocks and a few insults from individuals if you post AI in a deceptive or annoying way. You're not owed engagement. But, if you're polite about it, you'll find people who like to talk about the same things. Even including AI.

But, finally, what the hell does this even mean, "I don't like it when minorities get a pass either"? A pass for being a minority? If someone posts abusively, they get blocked, maybe reported and maybe catch a ban. But, simply posting while black is not getting a pass.

> don't use slurs

> don't demean people for who they are

Unless they are acceptable targets of some enemy outgroup.

People already have numerous slurs for AIs and their users, and they aren't shy about using them.

> A pass for being a minority?

A pass for the very same behavior they claim to be against.

I expect people who are offended by slurs not to level any slurs at others.

I expect people who object to racism not to be racist towards others.

I expect people who object to sexism not to be sexist towards others.

I expect people who object to doxxing not to do it to others.

I expect anti-fascists not to display overtly fascist behavior.

And so on, and so forth. Many have failed these simple consistency tests.

> maybe catch a ban

Doubt. It's far more likely that I'm the one who will get banned if I dare to bring any of this up.

I suppose that's the reason people like me end up on X.

"People already have numerous slurs for AIs and their users, and they aren't shy about using them."

Brother, someone saying something about your hobby that hurts your feelings is not a slur.

There is already preliminary scientific evidence that suggests AI helps ADHD patients improve their general functioning. AI is not a "hobby", it's already becoming assistive technology. That puts prejudice against AI in ableism territory. All these offensive names are absolutely slurs, and I absolutely expect anyone who claims to be "inclusive" to avoid their use.

The place I have seen the most discussion of use of AI as assistive technology is, by far, Mastodon. I follow a couple of blind developers who talk about it regularly (both are nerds I hold in very high regard, the exact kind of real nerd I want to interact with), and who are involved in developing accessible software.

As I mentioned above, there are folks on Mastodon with reactionary anti-AI views, but it's the only place I've ever been where most images have alt text written with care and the intention to include folks with visual impairments. It is also where a lot of people with disabilities have fled after abuse on other platforms.

You're not a victim if you post shitty AI "art" and get insulted for it. It is because of the pervasive use of it for disinformation and predatory purposes that it has such a bad reputation, not because people call it out. There are folks who are being assholes about it (acknowledged above), but I'll take that over genocidal white nationalism and child porn.

But, honestly, it sounds like maybe you're in the right place. If your instinct is to jump to "both sides" arguments when one "side" is literally supporting ethnic cleansing and the other is kind of rude about AI art, maybe X is your hole. Maybe it was made for you. I won't be joining you there, and I'm unwilling to pretend the choice you're making doesn't support an international white supremacist agenda.

No idea why you keep bringing up child porn, that's not allowed literally anywhere.

Overtly genocidal speech isn't exactly exclusive to white supremacists. "Kill all men" used to be a meme among progressives, and I collected quite a few examples of its use over the years. As a man, I didn't find it amusing at all. There is actual feminist literature backing it.

People in general are not immune to any of these extremist impulses. I refuse to give any particular group license to act with impunity.

If X happened to be aligned with those views, then it certainly would be the place for me. Unfortunately, you just demonstrated that X is just as biased towards the other side. I don't want that either.

It's clear that we have different, possibly irreconcilable values, so I don't intend to prolong this discussion any further.

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