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Comment by elmer2 | Hacker News Reader

When your entire economy is based on government-assisted handouts, you eventually run out of other people's money.

Very whataboutist view.

The problem is much more complex. Yeah, France with it's generous holidays, substantial pensions combined with a young retirement age has allowed their boomer population to live above its means. However, this is true for most of the western world.

The other problem is that the era of cheap money has come to an end, and France, like many countries, hoped that they could kick the can down the road a little bit longer so that, by then, the boomers would be dead. Without the biggest cohort (which is the one that votes the most) you could do reforms to lower lavish pensions, make them pay a bit more for healthcare, ... .

So now, with an oil shock that is slowly spreading to other facets of the economy France is fucked because it can't lower taxes to give their population more breathing room because of the above mentioned problems. Italy for instance, has now a lower yearly deficit than France and can borrow at considerably cheaper rates and It used this freedom to lower taxes on fuel since Hormuz closed.

Plenty of younger french people intend to keep the relatively low retirement age long after the post war generation has passed on. Politicians far from the centre in either direction are of similar views on this.

Hatred of work unites the country

It seems unfair to ask people to retire at 68 when the previous generation could retire 6–8 years earlier and with quite generous pensions by comparison, all while owning a house and with relatively cheap health insurance.

To ask people to keep sacrificing what little positives the market could afford, all while privatising services and continuing to not tax some sectors properly… well, you’re asking for riots.

Yeah but those benefits are what put the country in staggering debt? Like I don't think the politicians are proposing austerity because they thought it would be popular.

Lots of people seem to think that social security is paid for with some kind of special loans that governments get. What? Social benefits are paid for by other contributions into the system.

France has plenty of reasons to be in debt, and they’re well documented. We love to think that Europe’s issue is that we have good social protections, which is a lovely message those in power think you should believe in.

Money is fungible. There is spending and there is income and the gap is covered by issuing new debt.

Plenty of European governments have similar (or even more generous) policies but somehow manage to do okay. In fact, the holiday and parental leave policies of France are nothing to write home about.

Now, a 150 billion euro ‘handout’ to businesses, _that_ might explain why France can’t pay their debts.

Do they? Last I checked French colleagues enjoy 36 holiday days and retire at 62 (at least used to).

That's much more holidays and ~3 years earlier than any other country I know of

Looking at averages or outliers, France does look better. But their retirement age goes up to 67, as it’s highly dependent on contribution years and plenty of people in France got by with an early entry to the labor market in the past century (different types of labor might explain it).

Looking at the medians or normal ranges, France is not special.

https://data.europa.eu/en/publications/datastories/work-acro...

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Funny how this applies to the US government, its spending, and treasuries. An entire economy that lit $40T of other people’s money on fire for nothing. At least the handout is coming to an end.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/historical-debt-out...

https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-debt-does-the-us-have/...

https://www.ustreasuryyieldcurve.com/

What other person? The US pays its debts. Or rather it's we young Americans who will be paying our grandparents' debts. But, you know. Nana was worth it.

It pays the interest on the debt so far, hasn’t paid the debt back, and might not. The debt was for frivolous wars and tax cuts for the wealthy, not Nana.

Treasury bonds mature all the time, and they are paid.

"And might not" is not reflected by market expectations. But if you know more than Mr Market you can make a fortune shorting t bonds.

There is $40T outstanding. Not paid back. Believe what you want.

Literally every country, corporation and private citizen has debt on their balance sheet at all times.

Definitely not every citizen. Close to 1/4 of US citizens are completely debt free.

Does that include mortgage/car leasing?

yes

If you don't have a credit card, why?

I have a credit card but no balance due ever on it. 1/4 of americans do not have any debt, no card debt, no mortgage, no car loans…

Why do you talk about North-Korea?

hes talking about france

When your entire intellectual model is based on famous quotes, you eventually run out of ideas.

But besides, it’s not about a unique economic malaise. The USA has plenty of affordability problems too. The French, and in particular their students, are just very good at direct political action.

If that’s a good thing, you’d think they’d have better results in their society…

This American thinks France is doing a pretty good job at being a country.

Through good planning, France weathered the supply shock around Russian natural gas better than most of Europe.

No military dares to fuck with France.

Life in France for the average person is good. Many want to move there. Many want to visit.

France functions better than I would have thought possible of a country so attracted to Leftism and 'direct political action'.

Well this didn't age well, did it?

The community of countries that are "good at direct political action" (i.e. rioting) include places like Bangladesh, where an unholy alliance of Islamists and college students recently overthrew the government. Not a group you want to be in.

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