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Comment by msm_ | Hacker News Reader

>My father (...) tries to use his iPad as a PC (...) He's mostly on the iPad + keyboard because it's a nicely managed device update-wise and "what I can install"-wise, virus-wise. (...) But I recent told him: Just give up

Since he apparently wants a PC, isn't the logical conclusion the opposite? "Just give up. Buy a Windows/Linux laptop, you are too dependent on Apple, there is always something with the Apple solutions."

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We made the call to go Apple years and years ago when he was always fighting viruses and virus scanners on Windows. His Macbook was still (hardware-wise) perfectly functional, but does not receive security updates anymore, so he went iPad. Indeed there are more problems than expected. I expected even less IT support from me was needed. Instead he now complains about the lack of control (which I am certainly ok with btw, the complaining I mean.)

The current plan is to put Ubuntu on the Macbook, not sure what to do with the iPad but make it less "primary computer" will be one of the policies to implement indeed. Maybe he will be happy with an external disk and f-spot, and his music nicely sorted into files. Then some generic backup solution to a Synology NAS or something...

Macbooks are great devices, but Linux is a great "fire-and-forget" OS for situations tech-illiterate loved ones. I've done it many times, with much succes and satisfaction (on both ends) without barely any aftercare. All you really need to do is teach them to install those updates and install a major upgrade every few years (or not, Ubuntu will run fine for a decade).

I can confirm. That is basically what I did for my father-in-law. The laptop is quite ancient by now (more than 10 years old) but still good enough for running current version of Ubuntu.

Linux is the opposite of fire-and-forget. Eventually a papercut always turns up that will require the terminal.

macOS also has (well, had) extreme UI stability. You could transport someone from 2003 used to Mac OS X 10.0 two decades into the future and they would be able to use macOS Ventura (and all previous versions) purely by muscle memory. Good luck doing that with Windows and Linux with their constant UI churn.

Interestingly enough, by iOS-ifying macOS, they've made it much easier to shift someone using an iPhone from Windows to macOS, because they already recognize many of the UI and UX paradigms.

When did you last evaluate a system like Ubuntu? I'd have agreed with you 10, perhaps 5 years ago. But things have changed.

That's the point.

Yes, they are always changing, I know Linux since 1996, use it as part of my work, last time I used a system like Ubuntu was last year, where it failed to work with a GIGABYTE BRIX Mini-PC UEFI firmware when starting from internal SSD, which I eventually gave up after several weeks trying various workarounds.

> Linux is the opposite of fire-and-forget. Eventually a papercut always turns up that will require the terminal.

When I say it's been fire-and-forget, I mean that for at least two decades.

If papercuts turn up, you are running the wrong distro or secretly a power user that naturally causes problems for themselves every now and then. This won't happen with normal users on a long term stable distro.

Linux is not fire and forget for people who use technology without really understanding it, but for people who don't use technology and just need to check their mails and connect to government website to pay their taxes, it is the best.

Once it's configured for these kind of people, it's really fire and forget, and it was already that in 2016.

This. A competent admin and a clueless user is a perfect match for Linux. Either clueless admin or "competent" user however... not so much.

My daughter has Kinoite set up for her boyfriend's grandparents. It's immutable, so there's not much damage they can do without admin access, and she made it look much like Windows. They were already doing everything with Firefox as it was, so it wasn't a huge transition for them.

She did go back to fix things because the grandma managed to delete the printer, and she said that the downloads folder was full of exe files with sketchy names.

I'm with you on the macOS stability in the past. The thing that gets me is that Windows somehow gets a pass in this regard, but there have been some pretty big changes over the years.

I beg to differ, I tried that approach a few years back with my folks, only to discover on my next visit a few months later that they went down to a local PC store and got Windows re-installed.

They never managed to get it working for their liking, it wasn't able to run the stuff their friends used to talk about or share via CD/DVD/USB sticks, and they did not wanted to bother me with "dumb" questions.

So I rather that they have Windows, go down to the local PC store when something isn't working as it should.

Of course you need to help them to alternatives, if they are not that tech-illiterate that they have very specific wishes for software.

It's been a while since I experienced people sharing software one discs by the way, it's been a while since I saw discs at all ;)

I do the same with acquaintances whom I sometimes sell secondhand gear, I don't want to do any support so they get Windows. For my father it's different, I can do support, plus he really appreciates and is willing to make sacrifices for, the privacy angle.

> Linux is a great "fire-and-forget" OS for situations tech-illiterate loved ones.

Only if the device is truly 'forgotten'. As in, it is an appliance that's going to do that task forever and ever. Be it web browsing or what have you.

If requirements change, it becomes a problem. If they have to do work on them and interact with companies, you may need either Windows or Linux. Thankfully online Office365 removed a big use-case. But there are others. It is very likely that whatever package you need will be available on Windows or OSX.

Have you considered open core legacy? I am running macOS Sonoma nearly perfectly on a 2010 iMac.

Viruses were a problem and you're suggesting an old unpatched system.

Viruses are not a problem on macos and have never been. Unless we dive into purely theoretical scenarios.

This is why I direct most family to Apple devices. Otherwise it’s constant tech support.

Yes, did the same more than 10 years ago.

My mother wanted a device to just access internet banking. Gave her a netbook (remember those?). Only successful Linux use-case for non techies I've succeeded at.

I gave a normal notebook. The browser is the OS, it might as well run in TempleOS, it doesn't matter except for vulnerabilities in the browser.

This is why I don't do tech support for family. I just say "I work with servers, I don't know anything about [phones|iPads|laptops]." And indeed, I try to keep my own phone and laptop utterly bone stock or "as configured by employer."

Same philosophy as doctors who don't provide medical care for their family.

>Just give up. Buy a Windows/Linux laptop

I can't fathom using Windows voluntarily these days. Even for gaming, Bazzite is janky but it's serviceable, and anything is better than Windows. It's almost shocking how much worse things are than Windows 10, which itself was a major victory in Microsoft's war against its own users.

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