Not sure how it relates to what I was saying. Were you answering to me?
> My contention is that the top is ...
Are you talking about the USA or western democracies in general?
> They just fail to mention that change is not on the menu of options.
Even in the US there are other candidates than, say, Clinton of Trump. Saying "I didn't have a choice, it was either Clinton or Trump" is a lie: it was possible to vote for others at the time.
I was speaking about the US in particular, but much of Western Europe is in the same boat, as they have also embraced the same form of asset stripping neoliberalism. Given the economic dynamics between the US and Europe, Europe is probably worse off.
It’s true that third party candidates exist, and it’s good to support them, but I wouldn’t count on any of them winning. The system is stacked against outside challengers. If you’re going to participate, though, that’s the best place to put your energy.
Why? Are you saying that if 60% of the population voted for an outside challenger, they wouldn't be elected somehow?
> You seemed to be saying that a revolution was somehow clean
I don't think a revolution is the solution. What would a revolution get you? Do you want a new system? Like a monarchy maybe? Or something authoritarian? Or do you want a better democracy? A system that would not be "stacked against outside challengers"?
Let's take an example: Switzerland. If a fraction of the people wants to change the Constitution, they can initiate a vote. They don't have to be elected or professional politicians or anything for that. So the people can actually initiate votes, say related to the climate crisis. It has happened a few times in the last years.
Do you know what happens when the people is asked to vote on a text that says "the government has to take measures to reduce the carbon emissions"? The people votes "NO!".
Saying "we are not solving the problem because the elites are in power, so we need a revolution" is the same as requesting that a software project be restarted from scratch because it's complex: it sounds like an easy solution, but it isn't one. A complex codebase is usually complex because it models some kind of complexity. If you restart it from scratch, the complexity won't magically disappear.
We need the people to actually want to take measures. If the solution was to go in the streets and burn cars, France wouldn't have problems. But burning cars is just a way to say that you have problems. If you want to solve them, you have to vote accordingly. The French will probably vote for those who say they want to restart from scratch (Le Pen and her friends), because they are really good at burning cars and saying that it is the fault of the elites. But apparently not so much at actually getting in constructive discussions and thinking about complex solutions to complex problems. And it's not like France is lacking experts. Jancovici and the Shift project are experts in the domain. But the people is more into burning cars and schools, somehow.
You’re suggesting that it’s the fault of the public for failing to overcome intensive propaganda, disinformation, and divide-and-conquer campaigns, a failing educational system, and normal human failings like normalcy bias. I don’t know what to tell you. Fine, blame the people, it’s not going to change anything.
What I believe is that it is so bad, that the people are generally in a state of denial. And it's so much easier to say "they should stop wasting tax money" and "it is their fault".
Same goes with basic racism. Is the government teaching the people that foreigners are the cause of all issues? I don't think so. It's just an easy way out.
* "It's not me, it's the foreigners"
* "It's not me, it's the government"
* "It's not me, it's the others"
"It's not my fault if I spend 5h a day swiping TikTok and then go on saying that the politicians are all corrupt and that I would do better, and that I then go and vote for Trump or AfD".
Are you not aware that the average IQ in the US is 97-98? And that academic performance has been falling consistently? Did you know that 54% of US adults score below a sixth grade level on reading comprehension?
> Is the government teaching the people that foreigners are the cause of all issues? I don’t think so.
Are you seriously saying that the current government isn’t pushing this idea?
I meant teaching in schools. Politicians say everything and its contrary of course.
But yeah I get you've got a point. A lot of people actually believe that the Earth is flat, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.