Comment by flossly | Hacker News Reader

Comment by flossly | Hacker News Reader

These emails may be real. But that's yet to be confirmed.

Yesterday The Economist interviewed AfD's leader, in proper English:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cGGDu8sgXY

The BitDefender article immediately goes of with labeling AfD as far-right. This is going on all over Europe when a party is against mass-immigration and "sponsoring Ukraine till the last Ukrainian". And at the same time the streets in EU's big cities look worse than ever: unsafer, uncleaner and more un-European than ever before. Immigration is not good for us, and receiving a label "extreme rightwing" (and Fascist, and Nazi) simply because you want it to stop is loosing it's power... I dont mind to be called as such anymore (and I used to even call others this label).

In European vocabulary these "anti immigration of economically not-useful people" parties are not very rightwing: they are in favor of keeping the social benefit programs alive (that's why they want immigration of such people to stop).

Where's that post-Brexit windfall of cash for the NHS? It's still coming, right?

Far right means hate extremists more than anything. As in, you can't call them nazis or racists until you have proof you can take to the congress (?) to get the party disbarred.

I think you should be able to voice any policital opinion. But following the MSM narrative of calling every party that wants to stop mass-immigration as "far right" or "extreme right" has no meaning to me anymore.

In my head, "far right" is any "We, the superior" vs "they, the inferior" demagogy. Discrimination is part of human tribalism which is easily exploited by populism.

I agree with you in that you can't have open borders, but I would definitely use different criteria than religion and skin color, just because they are more visible. Maybe use scholarity and labor requirements instead?

That is just my head. But beside the word used, if you think your WORST problem is "mass immigration", you should pay less attention to politicians.

The mail, which are not confirmed to be real, however show a fascist party. Not just far right, like the German CDU/CSU

What nonsense! The AfD is not just “far-right”, it is (objectively!) an extremist, anti-democratic organisation and it is frankly insane that it has not been banned yet. The Economist disgraced itself by platforming someone as odious as Weidel, and in general, the media is complicit in giving a fringe party so much airtime.

You might have lost your shame, and I am sorry for you, but I assure you that the overwhelming majority of Europeans just sadly regret that people with such ridiculous views have become emboldened.

As for Ukraine: if you don’t believe that European freedom is defended there, I am not sure how to convince you, maybe an Estonian could.

So how is it "extremist, anti-democratic organisation"? you bring no proof. I have to believe you on it?

If you are done with mass-immigration in Germany, you get no sizable party to vote for because they all have been demonstrably in favour of the immigrant flood. Except AfD. Why no other party caters to the done-with-immigration demographic? If you deny your constituency for too long you are bound to create a new powerful player.

Now please show you proof...

> economically not-useful people

Ah yes, "useless eaters" (or in German, "nutzlose Esser"), you might even say!

Now where have I heard that before...?

Of course, by that logic every country is fascist and China is the fourth reich.

If you prevent the discussion of popular policies like reducing immigration, then you end up with parties like the AFD. Same thing here in Australia.

If policies were actually popular, there'd be no way for random commenters to prevent discussion of them.

And the just-had-their-emails-leaked-proving-they're-all-Nazis-AfD didn't grow out of anti-immigration sentiment, their anti-immigration sentiment grew out of the islamophobia, antisemitism, racism, and jingoism that Germany never fully stamped out, and which has resurged under an onslaught of foreign-controlled rhetoric.

Are people allowed to not want islam big in their home town?

Why can every country be "proud of their culture" and "want to conserve their culture" except white/christian countries?

Why is black-pride, or gay-pride, or african-pride, or XYZ-pride all very acceptable, except white-pride and christian-pride? The pushed narrative is obvious to me.

> Are people allowed to not want islam big in their home town?

Well Islam isn't a popular grocery store chain or something, so what you're really asking is,

> Are people allowed to not want Muslim people in their home town?

And yeah, you are allowed to want anything, but it does make you a bigot. And the opposite isn't happening, either; no cities are out there trying to ban Christians.

And no one has an issue with European countries being proud of their cultures, but culture is a set of practices and traditions, and "being white", or "being Christian" is not one of those.

Wanting to deny freedom of religion (or worse, being opposed to certain skin colors) under the guise of 'culture' is once again the kind of thing you're free to do, but also the kind of thing other people are free to consider you shitty and bad for. No one has to accept your bigotry just because you dress it up as, "it's a tradition in my hometown not to be Muslim, and not to be non-caucasian".

> except white-pride and christian-pride?

Show me anyone saying being proud of being Christian is wrong. I'll wait.

And "white pride" is a problem for multiple reasons, one of which is that it's poisoned as a term by it's use by literal neo-Nazi and white-nationalist* groups. But also because "white" isn't actually a single group, it's many many unrelated groups with no common culture, meaning the only shared attribute is the general skin color, which is why the reality is it's just racism. A Siberian yak-herder has absolutely zero cultural relation to a British plumber, yet somehow we're supposed to buy the idea that this group has one unified cultural pride? Please.

And your position is literally the bread-and-butter of the Trump administration and it's right-wing media backers, not some downtrodden viewpoint, and yet somehow you think you're oppressed? The pushed narrative is obvious to me.

That's because the AfD is far right, of the worst possible kind. Their members keep using Nazi and even SS propaganda, excusing Nazi and SS actions during WW2, ... (SS was Hitler's private security service, the people actually executing the holocaust), they openly discuss adopting a version of Nazi ancestry laws, ... you know, I'll make a list

* Prominent AfD figures promote a "völkisch" concept of German identity based on ancestry rather than citizenship, and propose to make laws based on this introducing what is generally referred to as "apartheid": 2 different legal statuses for German (and European) citizens based on ancestry

* The AfD "promotes remigration" (mass deportation) with some members supporting proposals that woud mass-deport German citizens. AfD figures attended the 2023 Potsdam meeting where far-right activists discussed controversial "remigration" proposals (meaning they discussed it with actual people loudly proclaiming they are Nazis)

Or how about: they keep getting caught defending Nazis, you know the actual historical party and what they did

* AfD politician Björn Höcke was convicted twice for using "Alles für Deutschland," a banned Nazi SA slogan

* Alexander Gauland described the Nazi era as mere "bird shit" in German history

* Björn Höcke called Berlin's Holocaust memorial a "monument of shame" and demanded a reversal of Germany's remembrance culture

* Maximilian Krah claimed that not all members of the Nazi Waffen-SS were criminals.

* More general, AfD politicians have maintained documented links to far-right nationalist movements (meaning actual groups calling themselves publicly Nazis)

People that have this as a job keep accusing, sometimes with VERY worrying proof, parts and people of the party of being Nazis

* Several AfD state branches have been classified as confirmed right-wing extremist by German constitutional-protection authorities

* "Junge Alternative", was classified as confirmed right-wing extremist by German intelligence

* Police arrested eight suspected members of the "Saxon Separatists," including an AfD local politician, over allegations that the group planned to use violence to establish a territory based on Nazi ideology

* Police raided AfD district politician Philip Steinbeck's property and discovered firearms, including reportedly fully automatic WWII weapons, and substantial quantities of explosives

THAT, and other reasons, is why AfD is described as extreme right. It's not that other parties don't get into controversies, but nothing remotely close to this, plus it keeps repeating.

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