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Comment by simonw | Hacker News Reader

Someone just shared Moonshot's "creators campaign docs", which are useful for spotting people who are boosting the Moonshot narrative (and might be being paid to do so) - examples like "It's over for image / video model. Kimi can CODE motion graphics."

https://twitter.com/elshayib_/status/2113734602032312731

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I am not too uncomfortable with the blatant Chinese model shills here ( I got comment history to prove this), but honestly why is it a problem for kimi or any other Chinese models to have influencers on their list or even payroll?

To me, as long as those influencers are giving truthful and useful information, why should we care whether they are coordinating with the model providers or even getting paid by them?

Because most of those talking points are “opinions” not facts. And saying an opinion you’re getting paid to believe is called lying.

Isn't Kimi API 5x cheaper than Opus API?

And it is much more token efficient. There are numbers down in comments of this post.

So most of those points are indeed true. While others look like exaggeration, expected from aggressive marketing campaigns.

1. Motion design: all opinion

2. 3D tool use: factual, kimi made a thing.

3.a. Open source opus 5.5: lies. Opus 5.5 scores 58 on artificial analysis, kimi 3.1 pro scores 55. So not “literally opus 5.5”.

3.b. 5x cheaper: also seems like lies. kimi 3.1 pro api cost on openrouter: $2 / $10per 1M - opus 5.5 api cost on openrouter: $4 / $20per 1M. Artificial analysis’ cost per task looks about the same, maybe 2.5x cheaper at best.

4. A fact about how it can be run on ~$10k of hardware, and some opinion about how that’s cool.

5. Gap is one month. Potentially factual, but only if 58 == 55 ;)

6. Kimi trained with limited resources: Factual and true afaik.

To be clear, i am a fan of open weight models. I refuse to use anything else. I am just not a fan of lies and astroturfing.

Are people actually running this on $10k of hardware?

I don’t know. You can run models that are in the ballpark of this on $1500 of hardware (e.g. strata on 12gb vram + 64gb ram), so I feel like unless you’re training stuff you either run smaller local models, rent your hardware, or pay for tokens.

Kimi 3.1 is a 2.8T parameter model. You can't run it on a 12GB VRAM GPU. You need 1.4TB of VRAM just to store the parameters.

Not really. Kimi has 104B active parameters, so afaik that means you’d only need ~64gb vram to run an 8bit quantization of this, and potentially as little as 32gb to run a 4bit quantization. The rest, the MoE experts, can be in system ram… or if you’re willing to take the speed hit, offloaded to ssd. But yes you’d need a lot of system ram… like 1.5TB.

But that’s all kinda moot because I was referring to smaller open models, ones you could easily run on $1500 of hardware.

We run it on 96gb Vram

https://argonautlabs.ai

If you do not make it clear that you are paid by the company that you are writing an opinion about, the truth is borderline immaterial. I automatically do not trust you because you are deliberately obscuring this fact. If it doesn’t influence your opinion, then you shouldn’t have any problem admitting that you are getting paid. This is standard disclosure stuff, a very reasonable expectation.

everyone does PR - whether the A.I labs or your regular startups - but coz it's the chinese doing it is wrong lol

Yep, presumed guilt for anything Chinese is a prevailing wisdom in the west. Though justified in some cases, we give western companies a pass in many areas, where we don't to Chinese counterparts.

It’s wild, the USA and China are basically the same country. Like they both do the same exact stuff lol. The biggest difference is restriction of certain information in China, but I would argue that’s mainly because they’ve been playing defense because the USA invented and owns the global mass media brainwash machine.

But human rights abuses, suppression of segments of the populace, relying on slave labor, weaponized economics, intense love of malls and shopping plazas… we are the same

The US and China are not the same country and do not do the exact same stuff. To take some easy examples, the US government never imposed forced abortions on large numbers of women, nor has it invaded its neighbours (in the past century at least), nor has it starved many of its own citizens due to misguided economic policies, nor does it regularly and systematically violate habeas corpus (though perhaps some ICE policies might come close), nor does it censor its citizens.

If you don't live in either, you might find them similar from the news we get. It does sound like a shit show in the US while probably most people living there notice nothing. As a tourist, US currently looks worse: I land in SFO and see streets with literal zombies while in Shanghai I do not. How can a country claim to be prosperous and yet allow that to happen. Some kind of starvation that is and because of misguided economic policies. Oh yeah, and both have dictators although you could argue that China is better at that too.

Are you sure about the claim that the USA hasn't invaded it's neighbors in the past century?

Bay of pigs comes to mind

There are literally equivalent things the US has done for each of those, but sure.

> equivalent

The two countries have ALOT more in common than most residence of either understand.

One thing the US has that China doesn’t is the ability to self govern. Yes there are forces trying manipulate or these control the way people vote. at times it may not feel like it, but US citizens have the absolute power to elect and remove politicians.

This is a foundational difference that keeps most Americans from realizing just how similar countries are.

> One thing the US has that China doesn’t is the ability to self govern.

It's just that the US chooses not to?

Is this guy reputable? No other influencers are backing him up saying they received the same message.

https://twitter.com/gnukeith/status/2113729404845076991 is the only confirmation I've seen from someone else.

People need to assume that ALL information on social media is lies, misinformation and PR, unless it’s coming from someone personally vetted to be a non-bullshit-oriented honest human.

It’s crazy that people still scroll on X/BlueSky/whatever and mindlessly consume whatever BS is shoveled into their brain. We know that it’s a cesspool of bullshit and yet half the population still wades into it every day.

twitter.com link instead of x.com?

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