iPhone Duo Teardown
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On the other hand, the advantages are... an iPad like experience sometimes? Or a smaller phone for the flip form factor? The flip form factor certainly does not pay off. I'm honestly not sure who the trade-offs pay off for.
Why does it have to be an all-or-nothing fight for the final smartphone form? Can't it just be a semi-niche product that some people buy?
As a fan of smaller smartphones (the likes of which aren’t made anymore), I thought the answer to this was supposedly a resounding no.
I mean, Apple sold millions of iPhones mini but we were told that wasn’t a viable product.
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people everywhere primarily consume media from their smartphones, whether it be Youtube, Netflix, gaming, etc.
None of my friends who don't work in tech own a personal laptop let alone a desktop with a big screen. Few of them even own tablets.
To them, a $2000 folding smartphone is a practical device that will be put to maximum use daily. A $2000 personal laptop is the luxury product they find no practical daily use for - laptops are for work, and only work.
Theres also the whole vertical micro dramas thing which started in China but has been spreading.
For the foldable market to triple in size, Apple would need to sell 40m this year, which if we assume a flat year for overall numbers (likely given rising costs this cycle and the trend of flattening sales anyway), then it would mean the fold taking 16% of all iPhone sales. For a ~2500-3200 USD phone (base model, international pricing), that's not happening.
Why would you think foldables are about to get a lot better? They have improved over the last 10 years, but the original caveats are pretty much all still there, and the iPhone Duo doesn't appear to improve on any of them in any meaningful way.
For the record, it seems like the production will not get close to 40m phones this year. According to most outlets, it is backordered to January and Apple had to ramp production higher than anticipated. I highly doubt that it will literally 3x the market this year. But the pattern has been, excepting the Vision Pro, that when Apple enters a market, it suddenly proves the viability to other market entrants, and to the general public who view it as a mature market.
> but the original caveats are pretty much all still there
I don't think this is true at all. A significant portion of people complain about the crease, light reflections, and poor software. It seems like initial reviews don't find problems due to the "nano-texture" display (probably achievable in third-parties with a matte screen protector). As for software, once apps have been optimized for Duo, I expect that designs will carry over to similar form-factor folding devices on Android.
Not a fan boy, but ‘a significant portion of people’ ?
All we’ve seen is influencing grifters <retches> falling over each other in nauseating attempts to ride this new hype-wave.
Initial reviews don't find problems on Android foldables either, but the crease becomes noticeably visible no matter the phone over time. Apple did not invent magic: their phones already crease (and break)
> As for software, once apps have been optimized for Duo
They won't. There is zero business interest in making dedicated layouts for such a small portion of the population that won't be using your app anyways, unless you're hyper specialized. I'm sure Bloomberg can justify a foldable layout, the New York Times doesn't.
Apple is going to rediscover every single issue that Android has has five years to go through, and loudly yell LA LA LA NOT A PROBLEM FOR US APPLE MAGIC TRUST US while having worse APIs for developers to properly support those layouts.
And yet, lots are already. And as people have pointed out, it’s pretty close to being an iPad mini. So if you’re already doing different size layouts, you’re pretty close.
Honestly I have no idea. To me spending 800usd for a phone is already completely crazy yet apparently smartphones in the 1000 to 1400 range are plenty already. What is the ceiling at which volume will go down drastically? I honestly don't know.
Same for transportation, I don't understand why people accept paying north of 35kusd on a vehicle and that is before the additional yearly expenses. Yet there are plenty of cars sold in the 50k and above. I bought mine second hand for 6.5kusd and even if it died tomorrow after 2 years of use it would still have been a better deal than leasing even the smallest and cheapest new cars on the market for 4 years. Yet I still see plenty of brand new cars in the street every day (and I am thanskful of that, otherwise the second hand market would disappear) so plenty of people are willing to buy really expensive stuff whenever much cheaper alternatives exist.
Having said that he is also known to make some bad purchasing decision and living in constant debt.
A $2000 phone (which will never be $2000, it's the minimum spec) to watch youtube videos and enjoy apps with bad layouts is in another category entirely.
The PS5 is, quite literally, a bargain bin product.
yes, battery & camera are a generation back and water/dustproof is even worse.
but productivity and fun are off the charts: slab phones feel pathetic once you've got a fold. Communication apps show you the list of conversations as well as the current one - or the current one and the details/multimedia. Google Maps shows the map and the listing details/reviews. Games and multimedia are delightful. Photos are full sized, and you can see what you're shooting in detail - if you shoot with a digital camera, remote shooting is amazing because there's enough space to show detailed focus.
I know, I know, that’s not as portable, that’s not a device you have with you all the time like a phone.
But we’ve seen pretty mixed results on the “combine devices into one” playbook. Sometimes it’s a huge hit, sometimes not so much.
Then they make perfect sense to do on an iPhone Duo, because the inner screen size is basically the same as an iPad mini.
That's the point. It's a foldable iPad that carries the iPhone name.
The annual AppleCare bill on an iPhone Duo is almost as expensive as an unlimited T-Mobile data plan for an iPad, $240/year vs. $200/year.
You are correct in saying that yes this is one device that roughly is equivalent to an iPad mini, but in terms of cost, durability, screen quality, etc, you have to really find the iPad mini to be unworkably difficult to carry around to make the cost and fragility of a foldable make sense.
There are benefits to having two devices in addition to the downsides. Two people can use them. Two batteries versus one, double the run time.
1. fold is godsend for commute/travel/restaurant/club/etc. tablet is nonstart. 2. one device = one device to learn/optimize.
also, there's something deeply elegant about starting with the outer screen for quick stuff, then unfolding when it's gonna be a minute...
I'm in nyc, and it's delightful to use slab-mode standing up, then sitting down and unfolding, like it's a Harry Potter moving newspaper...
Also, showing off my photos on the fold is a joy.
Why do I need a big screen device for a restaurant or club again? Shouldn’t I be enjoying the restaurant or club? Wouldn’t the heaviest and most fragile phone in Apple’s lineup be a poor choice for a club?
Is it hard to learn an iPad compared to an iPhone? What learning or optimizing am I needing to do? Am I unable to sync information between my iPad and iPhone in some way?
I can stand up my phone or tablet with a $20 case.
What problem is the Harry Potter moving newspaper solving? Is that worth $2,000 plus $200/year for AppleCare so you don’t get caught paying for a $1,000 screen replacement?
We've been asking for a small phone for so long now
And then now we have one. But its too costly. I'm waiting for the cost to come down
For foldable phones the factor is that you have a phone and a small tab all in one.
It’s not about the steps to be able to use it, it’s about fitting in your pocket.
Everyone I have ever met with the new Motorola Razr product lineup owns that phone so it fits in women’s jeans pockets.
Moto screen is good enough and has a full screen, not a dummy one
Also the point about the screen being too small - that's the point! I don't want to use Android and get sucked into 10 different apps. The small screen is perfect. Useless for anything beyond clock and phone and whatsapp maybe
I think the main thing is that for this kind of money you have a lot of options. You could even buy a GPD device that is an actual full blown pouch sized laptop and buy a regular iPhone for the same price.
I have done this! I currently carry a GPD Win Max 2 around, but let me be clear about some elements of this: the keyboard on a sub-device is just as important as any other, and the keyboard on GPD devices is not great. A sub-device has to be maintained and charged and given love and care just the same as any other device. The amount of times I have found my cute linux laptop dead when I wanted it, outdated, or randomly signed out of services is quite high (and this is with an onboard LTE modem). Carrying around a folding (or even non-folding, like a Magic Keyboard) is lighter than a sub-device, will last significantly longer in terms of charge/battery, and does not require any of the secondary device maintenance that is needed with one normally.
To me a folding phone is an absolute no-brainer in terms of why it is useful. You can get a very, very good keyboard for cheap, or try many, and completely eliminate the need to carry a second device.
Another huge use case I have is transit/travel video playback. I do not normally want to bring an iPad or even a secondary laptop during travel, so this effectively deletes one more device that I have to charge, update, bring adapters for, etc. It is effectively all of the benefit of having a tablet at all times, a sub-laptop at all times, and requires absolutely no additional charging or maintenance.
When I travel solo I take my AYN Odin 2 Portal with me for gaming. That thing has a battery that’s twice the size of a typical smartphone and it can play games pretty much all day before the battery dies, while my phone is in my pocket fully charged ready to be useful at my destination.
If I played games on my phone during the plane ride I’d arrive at my destination with a seriously depleted battery and charging anxiety, or I’d need to travel with a spare battery.
Is this setup bulkier than an iPhone Duo? Sure. The AYN Odin 2 Portal is also a $230 device.
Why would I want the ergonomics of a small laptop when a folding phone and bluetooth keyboard is much better?
What software do you need that android cannot support? Surely ssh or tailscale can fill that gap.
OTOH I have used my iPhone pro max for development for a long long time. The trick is to use a always-on linux VPS pairing with many excellent terminal emulators on iPhone (e.g. blink.sh).
Essentially I'm using iPhone as a thin client to visit a true linux development machine, and both of them play their roles perfectly. While other solutions while trying to be both roles with a single device failed miserably.
Eventually you will come to realize that the desktop/laptop app paradigm is wrong and that Android and iOS have it right.
If every device could be Linux-based with good touch screen and phone UI I would prefer that.
I don't know if terminal access is as easy on iPhones, but the utility is there for many work related use-cases. I do think the more square-like form factor of the Pixel to be better for productivity than the rectangular form of the Duo, but the latter is nicer for videos.
Interesting, reviewers (Joanna Stern) said that it was not great for productivity, more for consumption. Perhaps it works for your kind of tasks, but not hers/others.
well of course larger screen is fking great for productivity
try reading book on iphone SE vs ipad mini
and then try taking scribbing on pdf slides with ipad mini vs galaxytab ultra (14.6inch)
you must have really good working memory to remember all the relevant context NOT shown in the screen with that iphone SE
(I noticed this because I read same stuff, but understood less stuff with that iphone se vs galtab ultra)
my only complaint is ultra tabs not getting bigger: I want 16+ inch scribble note
I also think they were not comparing it to an iPhone SE.
small screens actually encourages the worst attention-seeking media consumption
I believe you on that.
Yet I cannot think of a worse device to do code reviews on than a phone.
In fact, probably not just laptops, but also large external monitors, too. So, maybe even the laptop itself wouldn’t be a requirement, but it is much more convenient to have only the one main computing device for work be something that is easily portable.
The point was that there are so many tradeoffs it makes it a hard sell.
It's basically worse in every category *except* for the screen. Durability, price, battery, etc.
It’s mainly a consumption device, I got it initially for reading ebooks while on the train. It’s also a surprisingly good workhorse by itself, or as a second screen for a MacBook. I even make phone calls with it (via the iPhone) simply because it’s always in or near my hands.
So the Duo certainly piqued my interest when it was announced, until I learnt it doesn’t do iPad-y stuff like universal control or sidecar. I’ll wait for the next gen.
The whole selling point of this is that it’s an iPad mini in your pocket, IMO. It’s really a shame they couldn’t give it all of the iPad’s best features.
Also, just for the record, some carriers in Japan are offering financing that gives you the option of paying over 48 months and Apple offers 36 months. Is that quite absurd to most people? Absolutely, but for the average person who wants a bigger screen sometimes, the cost is not even going up much on a monthly basis.
For the record, especially in Japan, folio cases where you open your phone like a book are already the default. Effectively most people on the train have their phone open in some "Duo-ish" form-factor already. So the jump from a folio case to a folding phone is already substantially lower.
Obviously the gimmick nature of folding is not the compelling reason why people want folding phones. The question is more about tradeoffs, and I think that especially in asia, the demand for folding phones is quite obvious: upgrade your primary PC to have a huge display when you want it that way, otherwise it stays compact enough to be with you all the time.
Carrier financing doesn't make this go away. It's still a $60/month plan vs a $100+/month one. You're paying significantly more to have a worse primary compute device. For most people, that's going to be a rather hard sell.
The only benefit is that you have it on you at all times. I would argue that this is an attractive selling point for tech enthusiasts, but most people aren't going to care.
I would argue that this is an attractive selling point for tech enthusiasts, but most people aren't going to care.
But people camped out at my Aventura Apple Store in Miami at 8PM the previous day. Not a nerd hub really.
Yes, the larger screen is nice, but portability is key. The foldable devices can do both.
For myself, I’m not even going to consider them until they are much more robust. When they get to the point where Zack on JerryRigEverything can’t easily break them, then I might consider the idea. Not until then.
maybe it is not the culture in India (where i live). but it looks financially irresponsible. if you need a laptop and can't afford it, buy a second hand laptop instead. iphone duo can't replace a laptop in first place.
I'm sure there are people who fall into the financially irresponsible category, but these days there are many people who find zero use for having a laptop and have no desire for one at all.
Also it's not just a cost or affordability matter. Some people who can easily afford a top of the line laptop and/or tablet simply do not want one. They want one device to do all their computing needs from.
Most of my friends who are not in tech are like this, as is my wife. None of them have personal laptops at home. Few even have tablets.
I sometimes pull out my phone for the calculator rather than use the calculator app on my laptop. I can’t justify it as logical.
I do sometimes break out the terminal and use `bc -l` to do some math, when I’m doing other things on the laptop. But if I could get a version of the “42” app for my laptop, I would be a much happier puppy.
For me, I have two personal laptops, one of which I use more as a server in the house (MacBook Pro M3 Max). The other one is my actual primary laptop (MacBook Air M5), but I don’t use it that much, either. I only use my laptop(s) when I’m doing things involving creation of content, such as writing or deep research, etc…. The iPad gets used for all content consumption at home, but doesn’t typically go outside the house. The iPhone gets used for calls, inside or outside of the house. And the iPhone is what gets taken with me when I’m outside of the house, both for occasional content consumption while I’m waiting somewhere, as well as navigation and call purposes. I’m probably closer to 90% iPad, and 9% iPhone and 1% laptop.
I think the patterns for many people are similar. Content consumption doesn’t typically get done on computers anymore. That’s for tablets and phones. Many people don’t do much in the way of creation anymore, and if they do, then it’s probably on resources provided by work.
Or, it’s video content creation where the tools on phones and tablets are sufficient for the majority of amateur or social media videos. And social media sites are all about keeping you consuming content for as long as they can, where creating content is neither necessary nor really desired. They want your attention on all those ads they’re selling against you as their captive inventory of eyeballs.
If I’m not doing programming or 3D modeling, I generally don’t use my laptop. It doesn’t seem worth the trouble of getting it. I can do the vast, vast majority of what I want on my phone, faster, because it’s already right there.
If I’m reading more or researching more, I pull out my iPad for the bigger screen.
But over the last decade, I’ve realized those two take care of the vast majority of my needs.
Most of my consumption happens on my iPad at home and while traveling, and my iPhone when on the move (such as commuting).
I spend all day on the computer. Unless I have some specific project I’m really interested in I’ve already had plenty of “computer time“ for the day and don’t feel that draw.
It still made sense before the smart phone, or when my phone it iPad couldn’t cover my needs well. These days that’s not a problem.
It's not even a screen size issue. I couldn't imagine diving into anything remotely serious without being able to open a new tab and search a specific term/concept/fact in a quarter of a second, without having to fight the autocorrect at every step of the process.
Your biggest problem in this space is trying to figure out which ones are good for you and which ones are not.
HN just really hates mobiles and unironically goes to amazon.com rather than using the damn app.
As someone who used to carry an iPad mini in his back jeans pocket (it barely fit), I am very much looking forward to my pre-order showing up.
I actually wanted the Duo so I wouldn’t have to carry both a smartphone and a tablet together all the time. Alas.
And that is why Apple is only shipping theirs now, it is getter better and finally have a decent trajectory in the next 3-5 years to overcome most of those issues. I mean you can pretty much look at State of the Art from Chinese Android phones to see where we are heading in terms of hardware. They are now to the point USB-C port is the limit of how thin they could make their phone.
Oppo Find N6 thickness folded 8.93mm. iPhone 18 Pro Max 8.75mm. Oppo Find N6 battery 6000mAh. iPhone 18 Pro Max 5567 (esim-only model) Oppo Find N6 dual nano + eSIM. iPhone 18 Pro Max eSim only (or smaller battery) Oppo Find N6 200+50+50 MP cameras. iPhone 18 Pro Max 48+48+48. iPhone PM has 1/1.3 vs 1/1.56" only on Oppo tho.
To pick the first Google result that isn’t the manufacturer’s pages, GSM Arena tested the Oppo at 15:45 hrs battery life and the iPhone at 19:20 hrs.
I strongly expect to find the usual camera result from the last twenty years of “marketing megapixels” not translating into image quality, but that’s more subjective.
Doubtless you’re going to say that the Oppo is a bigger screen but then why did you choose to crow about 430mAh more battery capacity and not compare with the iPhone Duo?
https://m.gsmarena.com/oppo_find_n6-review-2947p3.php
https://m.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_18_pro_max-review-3002p3...
This is peak 2026
I believe it has a larger battery.
That larger battery gives it 25% less runtime.
They didn’t actually say the Oppo gets better battery life, but if they had said it, I would certainly disbelieve them - because “some googled results” of a site which reviews phones and attempts to do standardised tests is stronger evidence, yes.
I just wish they could make a Mini once every three or four years. They'd sell a bunch each time.
Get one used and roll with it for a month.
Criticize afterwards.
Though looking at the practical engineering questions and their solutions is still entertaining.
Pretty much sums it up, for me.
But I don't even own a cell phone, anymore... so probably not the intended iPhoneDuo demographic.
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This "cool" mentality is the flaunt/sickness driving planned-obsolescence, in my very-jaded opinion.
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Why does a dog lick his balls? Because he can..!
So I don't. Fines are very low (almost not worth paying, entirely), so I don't sweat it (and know where lots of "free" parking is).
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Definitely this makes scheduling important – and then following through. I will typically arrive a bit early, and not leave until (they're) fifteen minutes late.
It is cumbersome but worthwhile; if I had family (or was "on call") this would obviously be impossible.
I used the hell out of that phone all night. Then I woke up and spent about an hour trying to figure out how to build one. I think I could do it in one dimension (i.e. make the phone wider) by rolling the screen around a tiny roller in the edge of the case, and having the case telescope. But that won't work in two dimensions at once. I never figured out how to do it in two dimensions.
When somebody builds one of these, I'll buy one.
https://i.redd.it/tv8gify0w11c1.png
Your dream phone sounds cooler. Dreaming about phones is probably not "cool", mind ;-)
must be shilling.
Good heavens, if your Duo breaks, it’s cheaper to get almost ANY other new phone.
The first broken iPhone Duos are here
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50223580
The iPhone Duo
I wouldn’t be surprised if this is their worst selling phone in the years to come.
They can't do teardowns of their own products though. Anything interesting they'd find in a teardown should have been caught at the design stage, and they're hardly unbiased about their own products. At most they can do design decision videos, which many do. For opinionated testing they'll send their products to another creator instead.
It's nothing new - is will it blend still a thing? - but man it seems like they're everywhere now
There is definitely an incentive for content makers to discover the next Xgate and some are going to extreme lengths because drama is popular. That being said destructive testing is part of testing a product, it's not like the engineers at apple weren't doing the same sort of things internally.