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Comment by yawnxyz | Hacker News Reader

> As more people delegate writing to LLMs they will also delegate thinking and comprehension to LLMs. I don't want to do that, where's the fun of writing then?

I enjoy cooking from scratch, and I really don't like frozen foods, microwave/TV dinners, or even DoorDashing

but we're past complaining/arguing/shaming folks who don't cook every meal from scratch

you know what, I don't prefer eating it, but if my next door neighbor loves microwaving frozen $3 burritos, then go ahead

to some people, food is art, creativity, life to others, food is fuel

also applies to writing and thinking

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Analogy: it’s fine to write stories for yourself mad libs style with AI

It’s not ok to write stories with AI and post them for others to read claiming “I did that”

Get the difference?

Yes, I like the phrase "you can't expect someone to put the time and effort in to read/etc what you didn't put the time or effort in to write/etc".

ai;dr

Something like 90% of food in all US restaurants is from Sysco, US Foods, or similar.

Some of them purchase ingredients from those companies, and then make the food using those ingredients.

A great deal of restaurants, though, simply purchase pre-made frozen foods from those distributors, re-heat, and sell it to you at a premium without disclosing while you think it was freshly made. Mac & cheese, stuffed peppers, lasagna, burritos, most 'bar snacks' you can think of, etc.

The analogy here is that a lot of consumers recognize those restaurants that are simply reselling pre-made food without much value-add, and choose not to eat there.

Yes, there are a lot of bad restaurants in the USA, and it's definitely not a good idea to eat there if you can avoid it.

yeah i love this comparison- that's why i avoid places that are clearly sysco wrappers (or massive chains that are just wrappers around their own supply chain)

basically any food establishment that has "supply chain operation" is slop to me; I guess it's similar to my distaste in reading AI slop too

I don't fault ppl for going (and enjoying) those too- Chili's can be enjoyable after a few beers

How do you recognize sysco wrappers? Any particular signs to look out for? I guess the big one is a mismatch between the size of the menu and the size of the kitchen.

The difference, I think, is that food costs money, but articles are essentially free. Human must eat, and we will eat what we can afford while making a decision based on the best value available. Articles are a luxury, so we become picky.

I single out articles because I know many people consume AI video slop when they are tired and just want to disengage, like eating junk food.

yes yes definitely, restaurants should not be microwaving food for paying customers (ok if some components are) but like... not serve a completely microwaved dish

happened to me once lol, will never forget that place ever again (blech)

I think the idea is if you are going to share LLM writing then why not just share the prompt which is shorter and has the message you want to convey anyway.

That is not to say that I don't think there is a place for LLM assisted writing. Writing is an exercise for the author and translates to oral argumentation so I don't think that fades away. But LLMs could do some "audience normalization". What if I could make a blogpost that is dynamic based on experience of the reader? There are lots of opportunities, but versus other fields where optimizing for laziness can be beneficial I don't think lazy writing currently has much value add.

If you posted the literal text like "write me an essay convincing the reader that C++ is better than Rust" you wouldn't get much readership.

This analogy looks quite good. Heavily processed food is not heathy for your body and heavy use of AI and other dopamine shortcuts like social media are not healthy for your brain. You have to approach both with causion.

I’m fine with my neighbour eating TV dinners, but if they invite me for a meal I expect to not be served a TV dinner, or to at a minimum be informed beforehand that that’s what going to be served.

Same thing with LLM-assisted writing. It’s one thing to do it for yourself, quite another to share it with other folks without warning.

> to some people, food is art, creativity, life to others, food is fuel

right. he is talking about the first group. where did you get the 'shame' part?

I like your analogy. Microwaved empty calories perfectly describes llm output. You are going to pay the price sooner or later.

Largely speaking eating is an activity that only involves yourself. Whereas, writing and thinking are largely activities to communicate ideas between yourself and others. Basically it matters more how this is done.

Sure, let's do food analogy..

It's your turn to host supper club this week and you serve frozen diners on your nice tableware.

These people have lost the ability to even consider second order effects of anything. They've outsourced everything.

To stick with that analogy, you also wouldn't serve a tv dinner to a guest unless you were somehow incapacitated. You certainly wouldn't do it if you were running a restaurant.

Add to that the fact that AI is significantly worse for you than TV dinners, and has an outsized harm to humanity, and the conclusion is plain:

AI should not be imposed on others.

But isn't one problem here that it's not just personal consumption? People bemoan the proliferation of food-service (Sysco et al) "slop" at restaurants. It seems like LLM writing for others is serving that $3 burrito for $15 without even trying to doctor it up. If you're not willing to put in the effort to think about and produce your writing it's probably best to keep it for personal consumption.

There’s also an entire cohort who didn’t have the time to write that now do. They have some incredible, unrelated skill and can’t afford to hire a writer but need some writing done.

When I come across their slop I need to remind myself to let it go, else I’ll miss out enjoying the food from that Abuela who’s been cooking longer than I’ve been alive

Probably he should have actually said "what's the point of writing then?", because there isn't one. Just like food is fuel, writing is thinking.

I agree. I honestly think convenient food is perfectly fine for people most of the time. Recently I have been playing with "eternal stews" which I guess are logically the opposite of fast foods, but at the same time are focused on availability and convenience over intentionality and mastery (at least the way I make them).

Most food is literally just fuel. I think that is fine. And at some level, eating 3$ burritos for a quick lunch on the daily really makes you appreciate the depths of a home made risotto even more. :]

Even more importantly: it's not an either/or situation.

You can love to cook and enjoy every second of it, but sometimes you just need fuel and that $3 microwave burrito is sufficient. Just the same, 99% of your means could be frozen TV dinners, but that doesn't mean cooking a romantic meal for Valentine's Day is off the table.

There's a weird level of fear mongering occurring around AI that it will make you incapable of independent thought if you use it. People will throw around very light research that kind of points in that direction, but they'll never highlight any of the nuances in such an argument. You can use AI and still "think" if you choose to, just like how you can avoid AI and still opt out of "thinking" if you choose to. It has less to do with AI and more to do with the context of the individual using AI.

I think what Martin is hitting on in the article is though is that as more and more of the world’s communication is generated by LLMs we’re naturally going to adopt LLM-Voice into our own communication style. It is just as much about consumption, which is less in your control.

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