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Comment by shevy-java | Hacker News Reader

> Supposedly very technocatric governments end up being more corrupt than average

Hardly. But it depends on who is on board.

Corruption exists everywhere. Do you think that Vukic was less corrupt? I am pretty certain you will find many people in Serbia who want to fix the country. Other Europeans would ask: why let only poor countries join? They drain money from richer countries. Switzerland and Norway will never join and they know why. Hint: there is a reason they are rich. Second hint: they got rich without the EU.

Which country got rich with the EU? I don't know of a single one. Germany was already wealthy before the EU was founded. France is now in debt crisis from which it can not escape, so it will drag the whole EU down.

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Estonia and Poland. I’m going to France and Estonia every year, and Estonia seems more developed and comfortable, I’m now seriously thinking of retiring there so good it is

Yes for Estonia, they were 3rd largest recipient per capita of EU aid in 2023:

https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/09/eu-budget-who-pays-the-m...

Hint: Norway has oil and Switzerland has been fairly rich for a while. No country got rich with the EU and that's a good sign, otherwise it would probably also imply that many got much poorer. But the living standards for a lot of people certainly went up in comparison to what they had before.

>Which country got rich with the EU?

Poland? >250 billion Euros received in subsidies since joining the EU; almost any construction you walk by has the "Funded by EU" poster next to it.

I think the massive service and outsourcing industry would also not have been possible (at the current scale) without EU membership.

> Which country got rich with the EU?

Poland and the other new members in the East, probably?

Although I suspect they would have got richer anyway just being able to trade with the EU and not being controlled by Russia,

Well, being in the EU makes it a lot easier to trade with the EU.

However I broadly agree otherwise.

Being able to freely and easily trade with the EU, and not wanting to be controlled by Russia, are probably the most important two reasons to join the EU!

"the most important two reasons to join the EU"

You misspelled NATO

NATO ain't a free trade pact.

Greece for sure. It is easy to forget how poor they were just 30 years ago.

Great Britain are feeling the pain of leaving so they are living the alternate reality.

It would have been interesting to have seen a counterfactual where Greece joined the EU but not the Euro.

Switzerland is a member in EU treaties, pays into the EU budget, temporarily pegs its currency to the Euro when it has to, is surrounded by the EU.

Switzerland is the opposite of a state being "without the EU".

It does not pay into EU budget - it contributes to and participates in specific programs and projects. The treaties are rather sectoral agreements which are always under the threat of swiss direct democracy. Bilaterals III has not yet been approved neither by the referendum nor the parliament - while it will likely pass the opposition is every significant.

Spain, Ireland, Portugal, Poland, Lithuania.

Poland? Baltics?

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