Why Did Meta Suspend a US Senate Candidate's Instagram in the Middle of a Rally?
newrepublic.com
newrepublic.com
Now I think, "how can there be a star trek future while we have social media and the Internet?"
Honestly, it's probably what started the eugenics war.
“Dangerous Memes; or, What the Pandorans let loose” In “Cosmos and Culture: Cultural Evolution in a Cosmic Context” Ed. Steven Dick and Mark Lupisella, NASA 297-318, 2010
https://www.susanblackmore.uk/chapters/dangerous-memes-or-wh...
I’m guessing they don’t have films either.
They do have written books though.
Now the Star Trek TNG film Star Trek First Contact takes place in the 21st century and features rock and roll and characters talking in “modern” parlance.
I’m guessing that in between the 21st century and the 24th century mankind advanced and stopped watching tv and movies and went back to reading books.
Perhaps they advanced and abandoned social media as well. The Star Trek’s version of forums and the internet could be an idealized version of Hacker News where everyone actually follows the rules and Dang the AI moderator can just chill and not do much. It’s very possible.
But as a pass time, I’m fair certain Holodecks buried pretty much everything else for good. Movies, songs, books, and as hard as it may be for tech people to believe..
Even social media.
They've been doing this for a decade, no reckoning yet in sight.
Lol what "loyalty" are you talking about?
Much better
People that were cheering on when this happened to one side suddenly get surprised when the same thing happens to their side
Well well well how the turntables... [1]
Trump was banned for years and that seems to be ok with you
A Dem account is banned 1 hour and people here are crying wolf
As far as facts go, here's what's established: Trump was deplatformed for political speech for 2 years
Leftist cheer on the politically-motivated censorship of the other side, and then when Dem account is banned 1 hour and everyone is crying their eyes out
The audacity
Trump received a 12 hour temporary ban for that video, because he lied that the election was stolen from him and he praised the rioters.
Trump was banned for more Tweets that Twitter judged “likely to incite more violence” like January 6th, particularly because plans for more violent attacks had begun proliferating, including more attacks on the US Capitol and state capitols on January 17.
> he was never convicted of anything
Private platforms don’t require a criminal conviction, and anyway his SCOTUS appointees invented a brand new Presidential Immunity doctrine expressly to protect him.
> so your accusation has no legal basis
“Not convicted” != “no legal basis”
> As far as facts go, here's what's established: Trump was deplatformed for political speech for 2 years
Nope, Trump was deplatformed for inciting political violence.
> Leftist cheer on the politically-motivated censorship of the other side, and then when Dem account is banned 1 hour and everyone is crying their eyes out
You would have a point if you can point to a case of leftists complaining that their candidate was deplatformed for trying to overthrow the government, but obviously that hasn’t happened so you have to pretend that attempting to overthrow the government is comparable to run-of-the-mill campaigning.
I also don’t know that I would throw stones about “crying” if my side has an annual meltdown about the decorations on Starbucks cups :)
> Trump was banned for more Tweets that Twitter judged
We were discussing Meta, why are we moving the goalpost?
> Private platforms [can do whatever they want]
That applies to Trump as much as it applies here.
> “Not convicted” != “no legal basis”
Lol, have you even heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? How about "defamation"?
So much artificial intelligence, yet we struggle with basic concepts.
> Trump was deplatformed for [commenter's opinion]
Yeah, that's your opinion.
> if you can point to a case of leftists complaining that their candidate was deplatformed for [commenter's opinion]
Again, that's your opinion, not a fact. Plus, you're trying to move the goalpost again.
> annual meltdown about the decorations on Starbucks cups
That's actually funny haha
> my side
That's were we have the real problem. "My side" vs. "your side". "I'm morally superior because [commenter's opinion]".
I literally argue that censorship is bad for everyone and people are ready to wage WW3 because of "sides".
Is the idea that I'm "moving the goalposts" by acknowledging that "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to private platforms' moderation policies? Or what are you specifically objecting to here?
> We were discussing Meta, why are we moving the goalpost?
Were we? By context I thought you were talking about his Twitter suspension, because your comments were clearly incorrect as pertaining to his Meta suspension which was for violating its content policies for promoting violence. Regardless of which platform you're talking about, you still have to demonstrate that promoting violence and trying to overthrow the government are comparable to campaigning for a senate seat.
> Lol, have you even heard of "innocent until proven guilty"?
Yes, Trump should stand trial for his crimes before he's sentenced. "innocent until proven guilty" does not protect Trump from people observing that he committed crimes.
> How about "defamation"?
Lol are you arguing that I'm committing "defamation" by criticizing the president for committing crimes when he hasn't been found guilty in a court of law? Firstly, by your own logic, you aren't allowed to criticize me for defamation until I've been found guilty in a court of law. Secondly, in the United States, it's only defamation if it's _provably untrue_ which is why the famously litigious DJT won't sue anyone for these claims.
> Yeah, that's your opinion.
The platforms themselves made public statements as to why they suspended his accounts. Maybe you could argue that the platforms are lying to us about their true intentions, but you haven't presented any evidence to support your claims that he wasn't, in fact, suspended for stoking a violent insurrection or lying about election results but rather was suspended for calling for peace.
> That's actually funny haha
Thanks, it was tough to pick just one controversy (tan suit gate, dijon gate, bike helmet gate, cheesecake factory gate, etc).
> That's were we have the real problem. "My side" vs. "your side". "I'm morally superior because [commenter's opinion]".
My man, I didn't start the right vs left stuff, I was pointing out that it's a particularly bad idea to engage in that sort of partisanship when your party is so much more guilty of the criticisms you're levying at "leftists".
> what are you specifically objecting to here?
I pointed out in my previous comment 2 specific sentences where you're moving the goalpost, no point repeating
> By context I thought you were talking about his Twitter suspension
I don't know where you'd get that idea, the thread started as a conversation about Meta banning a Dem account, we're discussing about Meta
> your comments were clearly incorrect as pertaining to his Meta suspension
You're clearly wrong, here's what Wikipedia says: "Trump posted a short video. Facebook removed it and blocked Trump's ability to post new content to both platforms.[...] The next day, Facebook said the block would remain" [1]; Then Wikipedia links to the exact video I was talking about in my previous comment.
> you still have to demonstrate that [commenters emotional opinion] are comparable to campaigning for a senate seat
No, I don't. You're moving the goalpost again by trying to switch what we are discussing here. I'm not debating with your feelings Trump's actions. We were discussing political censorship, specifically by Meta.
> Trump should stand trial for his crimes before he's sentenced
That's your emotional opinion again
> you aren't allowed to criticize me for defamation until I've been found guilty
You're not making any sense now, we are literally debating with each other; Goes to show how little you understand those concepts
> in the United States, it's only defamation if it's _provably untrue_
That's incorrect actually. Just for the sake of argument, in case of defamation, the burden of proof about the truth value of the statement is on the person that published the statement. If someone calls me a murderer, it's not my burden to prove I'm not a murderer (as a negative can't be proven), it's their burden to prove the truth of what they wrote about me.
> The platforms themselves made public statements as to why they suspended his accounts.
Then all those platforms (including Meta) paid hefty settlements to Trump and reinstated his accounts. So, clearly, all of them are regretting their actions. You keep insisting about nonsense that has no factual basis.
> your party is so much more guilty
Of course, I know, the other party is always always much much more guilty, even when you have 0 facts.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_use_by_Donald_Tru...
> Mark opens the meeting by talking admiringly about what he calls “street fighter tactics” that Uber is employing against politicians around the world and how successful they’ve been.
> He launches into a spiel about Empereror Augustus, his favorite emperor, who led the transformation of Rome from a republic to an empire.
> He wants to establish a team within Facebook to figure out how to build the tools that will use the algorithm and platform to pressure adversaries, including politicians who oppose us, to bolster the policy team.
>Nixon reported that the account was back up an hour later.
The account was created only 1 week earlier and was flagged as a campaign impersonation account.
Whether that's honest and truthful, we can only know if Meta is transparent. But, not including that information shows what the article's intent is.
> "During campaign season, we pay particular attention to accounts that could be impersonating candidates or campaigns and misleading voters. The account in question was created only a week and a half ago, so our systems automatically and mistakenly assessed it to be impersonating the Nixon for Senate campaign. The account was restored on Tuesday evening after three hours."
You pretend like this is somehow a partisan issue
It's a statewide race.
> They see an issue with their Instagram account which gets fixed an hour later and they immediately think it's Zuck behind the scenes in his war room following her race and rally with a big red button on his desk to cut her off at the crucial window. Incredible stuff.
This isn't the first time Meta has pulled the plug on rallies and leftwing organizations [1]. It's also not out of character for them to try and push right wing narratives. [2]
[1] https://www.ms.now/news/instagram-shut-down-a-no-kings-accou...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana...
Accusing them without due evidence is sloppy, but it's not like the claim carries genuinely zero possibility of being true.
Would you hold the same standard, and react the same way, if the parties were flipped? The hard part is answering that before looking for differences. Confirmation bias is powerful, and if any of us start from a conclusion, we’ll always find a justification.
You're implying that if two things occurred with inverted political parties, then they can't also have other differences. I think there's a probably a name for this fallacy, considering how common it is.
If you have two instances in mind that you think actually are the same except for the inverted political parties, and you can find somebody here who disagrees on that pair, then that would make sense to engage with, rather than this vague broad implication of hypocrisy.
If you actually do this, then it doesn’t matter whether the outcomes seem to help one party vs another.
The second part of your comment invalidates the test in the first part of your comment.
At least to me, this is a good working explanation - the conspiracy angles prove things that don't need to be proven to effect sustainable solutions. The real issue, as it has always been, is that we need to move away from these centralized communications technologies controlled by corpos. Their concentrated power is what makes their censorship inevitable.
So pragmatically as things stand - while it's completely understandable that political campaigns (and everyone else) need to engage with where people are, they should also be making it a point to nudge followers to distributed forums. Use censorship-eager popular forums to recruit new followers, but maintain your base of members with censorship-resistant communication methods.
Or politically, assuming a critical mass of people frustrated at this problem that we can effect change, what we need is anti-trust enforcement that breaks up these companies into smaller entities, chiefly by un-bundling apps (client software) from hosting services and mandating published APIs for the two markets to interact.
I guess the best approach is to look at a string of such events, and see if they add up to a consistent pattern of behaviour. The longer the string, the less likely it is to be accidental. (But this assumes the bad actor isn't trying to cover their tracks in active ways. Ho hum).
The change I would like to see: feeds must be in date order, most recent first. Posts should only appear in feeds if you have actively chosen to "follow" the originating account in some way.
I honestly think these two simple changes would solve many of the problems we have today, as a society.
Sure, except, why? Such behavior is (unfortunately) not currently illegal, so it's not like proving it would mean it could be straightforwardly punished.
Then furthermore, the specific groups that feel aggrieved shift based on who is in power. The only way to get actual reform is to form a coalition with people who don't feel particularly aggrieved right now, but still respect that it could happen to them in the future.
Making it into a personal us-vs-them just makes it so people who don't care about your "us" aren't inclined to see the issue!
> The change I would like to see: feeds must be in date order, most recent first. Posts should only appear in feeds if you have actively chosen to "follow" the originating account in some way.
Sure, but keep in mind this is still a political solution, whether through regulation or merely through shaming the centralizers. Meaning it requires the political will I am describing above.
Also from a technical perspective I don't see that this would directly address the problem in the article. You need an additional point, to get there indirectly - if the only feeds shown were subscribed ("followed"), there should never be a reason to censor an account from speaking to people who have subscribed to it or otherwise directly seek it out.
We're increasingly Balkanised. Part of that is algorithms that show us "the other" at its worst (outrage farming). This UX change would restrict outrage from being shoved down people's throats, and at least stop the problem getting worse.
It severely limits the reach of new outrage farmers, and attrition will take care of the current ones.
Knock-on effect, hopefully, is a return to some kind of sanity across the societal board. (Bearing in mind you can't turn an ocean liner on a sixpence).
> there should never be a reason to censor an account from speaking to people who have subscribed to it.
Not what I'm describing. I'm suggesting a change that means you have to go looking for bots, they don't get shoved in front of you. (However you define "bots").
If you think the censorship is the problem, then how does what you're saying address that?
If you think the frustration with the censorship is the problem (ie part of the outrage farming), then I suppose what you're saying is a solution in a roundabout way. But trying to fix a small problem by casting it as one aspect of a much larger problem seems self-defeating.
Now you've forced me to lay it out like that, I don't even believe it myself.
We're really screwed, aren't we?