Hacker News Reader

Comment by petcat | Hacker News Reader

ASML isn't a great example since it's largely American technology invented by the US government department of energy. The EUV light source itself is researched, developed, and manufactured entirely in California.

ASML is an important company but it is mostly just an integrator of technology from many different countries.

View on HN

> largely American technology invented by the US government department of energy.

Any references? As far as I know, ASML is as Dutch as it gets.

> ASML is an important company but it is mostly just an integrator of technology from many different countries

yes and no, outside of Cymer, wholly owned subsidiary of ASML, it's mostly European countries:

Core Technology & Mechatronics:

• Netherlands: Houses VDL Groep, Neways Electronics, and Prodrive Technologies

• Germany: ZEISS (precision optics, lenses, and mirrors) and TRUMPF (high-powered CO₂ lasers)

• Belgium

Dunno where your US government department of energy claim comes from...

You can read about the history here if you're interested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EUV_lithography

Basically, US DoE invented the core tech and formed a consortium called EUV LLC to further develop the technology. ASML came along much later to acquire SVG in order to gain commercial access to the technology and research. The Dutch company "ASML" didn't actually invent most of it. They are just the integrator.

This is how ASML even describes itself:

> Board member Wayne Allan in 2023: “We're an integrator – we build some of the modules in our machines, but we procure a huge amount of materials and critical components from suppliers, nearly 80% of the components.”

Most of the valuable tech comes from American, German, and Japanese companies.

First and foremost, I think you're underestimating the complexity of integrating the most complex technology invented as of date. Just remember High-NA EUV systems require up to 7 freight jets to deliver.

Second of all, EUV isn't everything. There is a lot of "legacy" node demand.

> Most of the valuable tech comes from American, German, and Japanese companies.

"Some" of the American. It's funny how you name it first despite it's being the minority.

> As of 2025, ASML is the only company that produces and sells EUV systems for chip production.

This is pretty much everything we need to know.

I was responding to your comment about the US Dept of Energy's role in the history of the technology. Also I quoted ASML executives describing themselves exactly as an integrator, not a developer of the technology. But you seem to be upset about this for some reason.

Not upset at all. I was just surprised to see a lot of credits to the US DoE.

The book Chip War [1] is a fascinating read if you're interested in the deeper history of all of this stuff. Highly recommended.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_War

I second it. Very good book!

Yeah, but so are car manufacturers. A car is greater than the sum of its parts. I'd wager an EUV machine is probably a teensy bit more complicated than a car.

You could say the same about lots of software. You didn't write the programming language, same for libraries and so forth...

I wasn't trying to downplay ASML's important role in the commercialization of the machines. I was just responding to the comment "ASML is as Dutch as it gets" which is not remotely true.

> "ASML is as Dutch as it gets" which is not remotely true. This statement is either ignorant or stupid. You choose which one it is.

ASML has its headquarters in Veldhoven, Netherlands, around 60% of workforce is based around that area. It's a spin-off from Philips, another iconic Dutch electronics company.

How is it not Dutch?

Yes, the corporate entity is Dutch. The technology is not Dutch. ASML's own executives report that 80% of the tech does not originate from ASML, or even the Netherlands at all. This is what we're talking about.

In America it comes largely from California, New York, and Connecticut, as well as Germany, Japan, and elsewhere.

Okay, you won. I gave up. Enjoy your imaginary fairytale world!

I mean, Toyota is as Japanese as it gets even if Toyota did not invent the original technology for the automobile. And a Kei is uniquely Japanese kind of car (even compared to other micros). Same for Sony and audio equipment. So I'm not sure I agree.

If you are trying to say EUV is not Dutch, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

Sounds like a European variation of the "China can't invent anything, they only copy" to me.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com