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Comment by ritzaco | Hacker News Reader

I think it's just brand, ubuntu was what I knew from using it as a personal desktop and then it's the default/most obvious option for a lot of providers, I think even 10+ years ago AWS EC2 defaulted to it above Debian, digital ocean too I think?

I don't remember why exactly but it was definitely just 'linux VPS = Ubuntu' for a long time. I think they got reputation as being the 'just works' option because they were happier to include some non-free graphics drivers etc where Debian was the more pure option but most end users didn't care

But since they added snap and I started running into issues with trying to install Docker etc a few years ago I default to Debian now and most of the time I don't even know which it is.

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Stable Debian is using Linux 6.12, if your laptop has modern hardware what do you do? Can't use wifi?

And don't get me started with Debian testing. I want a LTS distro not a testing one.

You can use backports if you want a newer kernel, e.g. trixie-backports has 7.2.11.

That, or just pick the kernel package from unstable or testing. Apt is smart enough that mixing packages from different versions of Debian works just fine.

(I mean nothing is 100% but I've been mixing packages for like 2 decades now and literally can't remember any specific trouble resulting from it.)

It's not apt not being smart that can cause troubles when mixing packages from various suites. There's no reason to mix in cases where you can just use backports instead.

> That, or just pick the kernel package from unstable or testing. Apt is smart enough that mixing packages from different versions of Debian works just fine.

While I won't deny that this may often work, I disagree that it's a good idea, and that `apt` being smart is sufficient to guarantee that this works (or keeps working in the future).

Pinning specific packages from `testing` or `unstable` is explicitly discouraged, for very good reasons covered by this classic link: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_make_a_Frank... .

Arguably, the backports kernel is the right choice to get a newer kernel on Debian Stable. Indeed, in the past, the backports kernel could take awhile to update, but no more - case in point, `trixie-backports` currently contains `7.2`, same as `unstable`.

I'd be wary of mixing software packages from different releases because their libraries might interact weirdly. But the kernel should be more isolated. Not isolated enough?

Either way backports does sound like the best option, sure.

This and other issues in parent comments is exactly the reason why I switched to Fedora.

Debian testing is way more stable than Ubuntu stable. In Debian's parlance, Testing means "release candidate", actually.

If you want real testing, you should run "unstable". If you're in for fun, try experimental.

Running Testing on my desktops and stable on my servers since forever. None of them broke, none of them created problems.

I don't care Stable running 6.x.x. It gets security updates in less than 24h, and is applied automatically before I wake up, and doesn't ship coreutils with 104CVEs, just because it's Rust.

Testing doesn't get timely security updates. It's not for serious people with production systems. It shouldn't even be a debate.

I believe I need to reiterate: Stable is for servers, testing is for desktops if you're not directly exposed to internet.

Again. Stable is for servers, testing is for personal use.

I never argued otherwise, ever.

The comment you're replying to makes clear that they're not using it on servers. I do the same thing (testing on my laptop(s), stable on my servers); you just have to commit to keeping track of what's going on and manually patch if you think that it's necessary.

I have to add that for me, testing definitely breaks stuff sometimes. Nothing beyond my ability to fix, though. Nothing beyond anyone's ability now that AI is around.

> I have to add that for me, testing definitely breaks stuff sometimes.

That's interesting, can you give an example? Asking as a curious Debian user.

Google disagrees - https://itsfoss.com/goobuntu-glinux-google/

Debian security team used to offer support for testing, but as the distro grew and attack surface increased, that was dropped. However, security incidents are patched in unstable as well and they float up to testing relatively quickly (for a desktop system, anyway). When things freeze, security updates directly land on testing as a fixup polish.

However, while Testing is "relatively secure", it's never "Server secure". I'd never use testing or testing packages in stable or any server for that matter.

Testing is the staging area for the new Stable release.

However, one thing that many people don't know is that Testing enters a package freeze every time a new Stable release is to come out. And this freeze can last anywhere between 4 to 7 months. So for that time period, it stops having frequent updates and becomes essentially a stable distro.

Well you may want to know that Ubuntu LTS releases are based on Debian unstable, not even testing...

> Stable Debian is using Linux 6.12, if your laptop has modern hardware what do you do? Can't use wifi?

And Ubuntu 24.04 LTS is using 6.8.

Ubuntu releases a new version every six months, but an LTS — which is probably what most people run in production — only every two years. Debian releases come out every two years.

So if you only run Ubuntu LTS, the release cadence is the same as Debian.

I think you're forgetting about Ubuntu 26.04 (LTS) that is using kernel 7.0.

> I think you're forgetting about Ubuntu 26.04 (LTS) that is using kernel 7.0.

Which only came out a few months ago, and which only recently released its .1, so the do-release-upgrade message only recently appeared for most people.

I'd be interested to know how many folks have changed their current production over to 26TLS in the last six months. I'm guessing not a lot.

So yes, there is a newer LTS, but what is its current market share as compared to 24 TLS (or even 22LTS)?

Ubuntu releases its LTSes in even years, and Debian does its releases in odd years:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_release_version_history...

This is why Ubuntu also has Hardware Enablement (HWE) kernels[1], which are fully supported on LTS releases. The current Ubuntu 24.04 HWE kernel is 7.0.

[1] https://ubuntu.com/kernel/docs/reference/hwe-kernels/

Debian does have the concept of Backports, which includes kernel(s):

* https://wiki.debian.org/Backports

I hope you realize the irony in your comment. Guess where Ubuntu packages come from?

> Stable Debian is using Linux 6.12, if your laptop has modern hardware what do you do? Can't use wifi?

Why not just install a newer Linux version from the official backports repository if you need it?

https://backports.debian.org/

> I want a LTS distro not a testing one.

You either want to have the new stuff or LTS. You can't have both.

You opt into backports and run the shipping 7.2 kernel: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux&searchon=n...

It's not 'as supported', sure, but I'll also note that wifi, at least, has worked on pretty much every modern laptop which I have installed Debian upon.

> Stable Debian is using Linux 6.12

But nobody runs Debian stable on their laptop.

They run Debian unstable or testing, with firmware.

And everything just works

> what do you do?

You get 7.12 from backports?

Building your own kernel is always an option, just like it was 30+ years ago.

Back in 2005-2008 or so, I think Ubuntu was a genuine breakthrough as a polished desktop version of Linux that set a standard that various other distros, eventually, caught up to. I think Cinnamon and other distros eventually caught up on polish.

They also had credible commitments to long term support that brought people on board. I think that was enough to get them on the map, but personally as a desktop user, I haven't used it in a while, mostly sticking to Debian and Arch.

I think you are right about the branding / reputation. Personally I heard negative things about Canonical and I heard that they just basically follow Debian, so why not use the original? It's been a great experience so far. Perhaps because Debian moved to include proprietary drivers out of the box now it is extremely easy to set up.

Yeah this was the same for me. When I first made the switch to Linux for my dev machine Ubuntu was the distro I was by far the most familiar with so that was just the default choice. Later on after learning more and seeing how Ubuntu progressed I regretted not going straight to Debian.

The brand I associate with Ubuntu over Debian is increased RAM usage and extremely low performance of the UI.

Using linux for over 25 years now. Tried ubuntu once. Immediately dropped it when I saw an ad in the motd. Not a serious distro in my eyes

For us slow kids in the back, can you link to a .ISO-file of your favorite Debian?

Ubuntu found me (finally, with the tutorialhelp of a localLLM) in 2026, and I don't trust most of the opt-outs.

You are kidding, are you not? https://www.debian.org/download

Guy who can set up a local LLM but not navigate to debian.org

Times are changing! Remember when it was easy to set up WiFi, but difficult to call your doctor and get an appointment?

Now my friends don't have trouble calling doctors, but can't set up port forwarding (not like any games require it anymore).

In the US, my experience is that it's more difficult than ever to get an appointment with a doctor.

Here in NL as well. I attribute it to population ageing (babyboom generation), but AFAIK that issue is much less severe in USA than other countries which suffered in WWII. China is going to have the issue severe due to the one child policy. That population is going to get reduced a lot (not taking into account migration).

In my EU country, making an appointment got extra steps asking about one's mental state, namely depression or loneliness. One wonders if this age of social atomization, people (probably mostly those elderly) are making unnecessary appointments just to have someone to talk to.

That may be part of it but my guess is that since patients tend not to proactively mention depression and loneliness to their doctor, the doctor's office wants to know in advance whether they should be referring you to a mental health specialist.

Local minecraft server definitely requires port forwarding at the router... as I've learned to my chagrin that Starlink doesn't support port forwarding... Goodbye self hosted minecraft. Did it for nearly a decade and cannot anymore.

If you're gaming friends can use it, IPv6 should work.

>can't set up port forwarding

After October 2026, nobody should be port-forwarding IMHO.

I am next to learn about the "tailscale options" of this new world.

Wish us all luck.

Why not?

I just wanted a human recommendation; don't trust the LLMs at all.

Thanks for the link (above).

The other day, I sent a friend a link to my project. He asked, “When can I use it?”

I was confused because the project was already available, with detailed setup instructions, an `llms.txt`, and everything else needed to get started.

Then he showed me a screenshot of him asking ChatGPT about it. Apparently, ChatGPT was using some outdated cached information or something, because it gave him a wall of text explaining that the project was still “coming soon” and wasn't ready to use.

If he'd just opened the landing page, he would've seen that the project was already available.

seriously? how'd you set a local LLM up if you don't know how to figure that out?

By using a LLM, maybe ?

While I have your attention, can you constrast this human comment with your [presumably] human-derived username?

–ProbablyNotMachines

seriously: I am a bluecollar electrician that has absolutely no clue what I am doing. I have several machines because I constantly >BRICK< OSes...

As I only really learn visually (i.e. I love GUI environments), LLMs have enabled me to (quite dangerously, I might re-enforce) finally explore Linux (from MacOS for ~40 years).

I have tried for a long time (to adopt any Linux) – the fact that an LLM also won't be a sassyb when asking simple questions... is one reason I am so comfortable with my/our future(s).

you aren't exploring anything if you have no idea what you're doing! you're playing pretend while not actually doing or learning anything. what's the point?

Isn’t that exactly what exploring is?

Try here...

https://distrowatch.org/index.php?distribution=debian&releas...

Thank you for this human recommendation.

I am definitely still learning.

There literally is a huge "Download" button on the debian.org homepage linking directly to the ISO. Is it even possible to make it easier?

Honestly didn't even know if it was something [genericized, or specific?] like "fedora" or "ZFS" (where there are multiple wrappers of it) so thanks for all the help from everyone.

Now I have learnt something.

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