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Comment by andrewflnr | Hacker News Reader

> it's illegal for pet cats to be off their property here

So, is it deliberate that this is indistinguishable from making outside cats illegal? Otherwise how the heck are owners supposed to ensure cats stay on their property?

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> Otherwise how the heck are owners supposed to ensure cats stay on their property?

Sounds like that's their problem to figure out, and I think that's right. I would 1000 times rather have more birds at my feeders than the neighbor's cat pooping in my yard, hunting birds and bothering my dog.

Let them put in a good fence, electric collar, leash with one of those zip line things - whatever they have to do.

Reasonable. I like cats well enough, but I find that cat owners are usually very irrational about people disliking other people's cats causing issues, especially compared to dog owners. I don't really understand why.

Dogs are easier to train and control than cats. A dog being a menace outside can be put on a leash. That's not always an option for a cat, which in practice means the cat owner knowing the only option is to confine their cat indoors. Which many don't want to do. (Mine gets semi-supervised time outside. I put a GPS collar on him from time to time, however, and he doesn't go far and comes back quite quickly. He's also seventeen and so past his most urgent hunting days, though we did have an issue with him letting in an elk last winter.)

Cats are like us. They don't give a fuck and consider the planet their private resort. It's what I like about them.

On the other hand, assuming you are in North America or Europe in a typical urban or suburban environment, somewhere around 30-60% of the bird species in your area will be non-native.

At bird feeders the percentage of individual visitors that are non-native is often much higher. The non-natives tend to be more generalist eaters, whereas the native specifies tend to stick more to their native diet which isn't as well served by most feeders.

By drawing in these generalist non-natives feeders tend to actually displace native birds from the surrounding area.

That's why when I was feeding birds I didn't really worry about cats getting into my yard. I couldn't think of a way to make a good argument that the line of how much harm it is OK to do to the native environment for your enjoyment is somewhere between the harm feeding non-native birds does and the harm the neighborhood cats do (especially since I've never seen a cat catch a bird in my yard).

> Otherwise how the heck are owners supposed to ensure cats stay on their property?

I have an electric fence; cats sense it and avoid it. 20+ years without a cat getting off the property.

Outdoor domestic cats should be illegal. They destroy the ecosystem. You should be thankful parent does not trap and kill the animals.

> You should be thankful parent does not trap and kill the animals.

you know how crazy you sound?

That’s genuinely what happens here.

what is genuinely what happens? stray cats are put down by animal control?

read the exchange in which i told someone they sounded crazy. understand it in context, and try to be less eager to blurt out your first reaction. god damn.

Your neighbors do not always share the same values towards invasive species as pets.

If you care about the environment you should not let your cat wander. If you don't care about that, you should not be surprised when others do.

capturing your neighbor's pets and killing them is a bit of serial killer behavior.

I didn't get an 'outside cat' that shits in my yard and kills my songbirds.

If you'd like that pleasure, you're welcome to it. You just don't get to inflict your particular masochist tendencies on your neighbors.

Your songbirds?

The irony of "control your animals" while referring to wild birds as "yours" is ... interesting.

is that the strongest argument you can add to the discussion? Grammar?

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