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"he only way to get the desktop modeler was to pay several hundred per year, which wasn't worth it to me. "

This comes up so often it's good to explain what happened there.

They were not out to extract value from consumer.

They retargeted the offering to professional engineering and architecture firms.

SketchUp was originally an offering for the AEC market. Then Google bought it and essentially pivoted it to consumer offering. Then Trimble bought it and pivoted it back.

I do realize this hurts the person who is a non-professional user but AFAIK SketchUp sales have never been better.

So it's not a pivot out of stupidity or malice, it's just a pivot.

The main customers - engineering and architecture companies - seem to be fine with it.

If you were an engineer CAD manager it would be odd to pay hundreds per seat a year for a product consumers can get for a pittance. So it's about pricing power I guess as well.

And do agree as a consumer there should be better options.

The problem with this strategy is that anyone who used it during its consumer period find the second pivot as inexcusable. I would not trust a company to steward software upon which my business relies after they move to drop their products’ existing customer base in search of greener pastures.

I would rephraze this that if you are not a product's intended target market chances of having nice product experience are suspect, and yes, it's a very reasonable choice to find some other product.

" in search of "

Trimble didn't need to search anything. They knew very well what the market is.

They could have a handled the consumer market retreat better.

> The problem with this strategy is that anyone who used it during its consumer period find the second pivot as inexcusable.

Unfortunately, that's not a problem with the strategy. That was taken into account by the business when the pivot was made, and it was determined to be an insignificant amount of users. The strategy worked without any problems, given the increase in sales. Anyone who used it during the consumer period is no longer the intended customer.

>SketchUp was originally an offering for the AEC market.

I used it a lot since the first demo version came out on CDs of computer magazines of the era, and I wholeheartedly disagree with that.

The first release was definitely not feasible for professional use in the AEC market. It was just a easy to use 3D modelling tool for hobbyists and tinkerers who wanted to CAD or model something simple at home with the mouse, without the cost and steep learning curve of parametric pro tools like AutoCAD, 3DSMax or Maya.

It was the first 3D modelling tool I used that made 3d modelling simple and fun that a child could enjoy. But definitely not AEC levels, at least not the first release.

>Then Google bought it and essentially pivoted it to consumer offering.

When Google bought it, it was already popular in the consumer market. They bought it because they needed a simple tool that anyone could use to populate Google maps with 3D buildings of their neighbourhood via crowdsourcing, and nothing was simpler back then then sketchup.

>They retargeted the offering to professional engineering and architecture firms.

More correct would be they pivoted there because that's only userbase that will pay for SW. Unless you have the backing of someone like Google or Autodesk being you to finance such a loss-leader, then you're forced to move away from free SW for casual home users to paying pro-sumers to survive as a company.

”More correct would be they pivoted there because that's only userbase that will pay for SW”

Negative. This was part of Trimbles strategy in AEC software purchases. They bought Tekla for Tekla Structures on 2011 for example.

Ofc they want to make money but it’s not like they _first_ bought SketchUp randomly and then tried to find someone to pay for it.

Architects would use it originally and to a small extent professional engineers because they wanted to communicate in 3d and tools at the time were so bad. It just couldnt do the drawings.

The big problem for architects is it never got to be able to do architectural drawings while other software came in with easier 3d modelling and visualisation (revit which autodesk bought and built out fully for industry use, rhino etc. Even blender).

Google did very little with it and Trimble too. Google i can understand ignoring it after Google earth stopped being a focus. Trimble I dont really understand what they want it for

Also it was notable for being a major commercial success for the ruby programming language, outside ruby on rails.

”Trimble I dont really understand what they want it for”

Architecture and engineering.

It’s used in design workflows from apartmentns to nuclear power plants.

Sure, it’s not evolved much. But I guess that stability is a value for some users.

The problem here is what you euphemistically frame as "pricing power". It's a cornered market with every appearance of artificially high prices.

Monopoly rent extraction targeting a captive audience

Business customers don't pay for "having more buttons than mere consumers". Their business depending on such a crucial tool makes them reliant on swift and extensive support, negligible down times and so on. They are being cornered by ecosystem lock-in and workflow dependencies.

You could sell the same software at low prices to both "classes" of customers and charge extra for the services relevant for businesses. But then the fiction of "professional" whatever would be gone on the business side. And more importantly, companies like SketchUp would have to admit, they are merely SaaS with bad scaling prospects.

”companies like SketchUp…”

I think you mean ”companies like Trimble and Autodesk”.

”You could sell the same software at low prices to both "classes" of customers”

Slightly disagree. How do you brand the product then? ”Design your next hobby woodworking project” and ”Design next award winning apartment complex” are promises that speak to totally different markets.

So I would argue it would not make sense if you care about the brand.

Thats why these open source alternatives are so great - they are actually targeting a market no-one is interested to serve commercially and can have hobbyist specific brand without having to voice cringy boasts about being a perfect clone of something for the users of the said clone.

Expansion of software patterns to adjacent underserved markets via open source is really nice.

Been through the same journey -- and have been super annoyed each year when I paid the several hundred dollar license for a tool I didn't use much, but really needed when I did use it.

My exit has been FreeCAD with an MCP-bridge, letting me talk to an agent that implements my requests directly in the FreeCAD file I have open. Works super well with FreeCAD which has all the features I need, but where they can be hard to discover.

Same. Working in FreeCAD with agents is actually pretty awesome.

Out of curiosity, how do you tell the agent what you want - just describing it in words? Or draw something and scan it in?

I can't tell you how the parent commentor does it, but I saw an excellent reproduction of some historical building done by Astra in headless blender, using photographs, blueprints, and contemporary descriptions. Frontier models are smart enough to incorporate just about any kind of evidence you can give them about what you want, so give them everything.

I've used Claude (Opus) and Gemini (Argon) for Blender for some 3D printing. The work reasonably well, I'll have to try Astra next.

It's interesting, I have an interest in wood working, for a long time the defacto application for planning the majority of woodworking project was SketchUp. I can't say the last time I remember someone discussing it, probably because they are all using knock-off old versions and don't want to mention it.

Sharing my own 'sketchup' specifically made for woodworking [0] for like-minded folks. Instead of extruding rectangles you use carpentry tools on dimensional lumber from a materials library.

You can set up a digital twin of your actual workshop, with config-driven models of table/band/miter/hand saws, router tables, drill press, chisels and rasps, all sorts of fun.

I recently added a jig system too, so you can build jigs that you can actually use, both in your shop and in the tool. It's all drivable by a human or an MCP, and has video and plan authoring and sharing built in.

I've been building this as a labor of love since getting laid off in April, it's all completely free to use and people have made some really damn cool plans with it.

[0] https://sawdust.diy

I've been working on addressing a similar need, but for CNC machines and from a very different perspective and UI approach --- small, specialized tools which allow making one thing/doing one task:

- Flatten aboard: https://studio.flet.dev/run/46tp8GPq9g/

- Make rabbeted box w/ optional sliding lid: https://community.carbide3d.com/t/rabbet-box-designer-on-fle... (working on a hinged option now)

drawing on what I learned putting together: https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview and https://willadams.gitbook.io/design-into-3d

This looks really cool, and the box you made looks great! I like the look of bamboo end grain, personally.

Sawdust has support for laser cutters [0] and has procedures for generating finger joint boxes, with svg export. It can also do more advanced forms via mcp, like this arcade cabinet design [1]. G-code is high on my to-do list because LightWorks isn't getting updates on linux any more would be great to send a design straight to my diode machine.

Sawdust also has support for 3d printing, both for including printable components in designs as well as printing scale models of your build [2]. No slicing built in, but full .step output for any slicer you like, with build volume aware scaling so you can print it on your machine.

[0] https://sawdust.diy/knowledge-base/how-to-use-the-laser-work...

[1] https://sawdust.diy/whats-new/laser-fabrication-enclosures-a...

[2] https://sawdust.diy/whats-new/woodworking-models-can-be-expo...

wow, nice!!

I signed up inside a minute of opening it :)

Very cool. And I am working on some wood projects in the garage at the moment…

If you ever have/get any, a photo of any of the things on your site, actually built, would be a cool addition—make it real.

I work on a similar tool and felt the need to prove the engine myself, check out https://shopspec.io/gallery

I have a few projects that are in progress while continuing to build out ShopSpec. This is so that I can address any rough edges as they come up. For instance, material handling and safety during sheet breakdown.

I'm building a tortoise table next weekend for our new sulcata hatchling, and am planning on making a youtube video showing the whole process, warts and all. Should be fun!

If you go to the plans section in the 'my shop' tab [0] and click a plan, e.g. this Pinocchio puppet [1] that someone requested via the public feature/plan request board, you can upload photos of anything you build and share a comment about how it went. Credit where due, I modeled this on Instructables and Thingiverse and similar project sharing sites. I for one cannot wait to see some pics of what people build!

[0] https://sawdust.diy/myshop

[1] https://sawdust.diy/plans/8088707d-db0a-4d2a-a73a-686f2c5e2c...

Awesome. I’m not into wood working as a hobby but I do have a bunch of different tools including a few different saws; I will be checking this out! Looks awesome and I love your attitude about it being a labor of love…… the best products out there that isn’t jammed down everyone’s throats!

Very cool! Some feedback on the landing page - discard if you don't care:

1) The sawhorse explosion feels physically inconsistent, in that all of the pieces go "straight" out at once, leading to things like the nails being dragged sideways through the wood. Since you have the build instructions, you could reverse it a few pieces at a time to fix that. 2) A couple places the AI-written text sneaks through in ways that are nonsensical or irrelevant to the reader - like "drag to orbit. The page scrolls past." on the 3d-print birdhouse diagram. The AI writing is more noticeable in the "learn woodworking" section but also seems to generally make more sense. (Personally, I'd be paranoid about potentially giving unsafe advice, but I assume you check it all before posting. I didn't notice any safety issues here.)

I've bookmarked it to try the tool out.

Thank you, the feedback is much appreciated!

I'm embarrassed that "drag to orbit. The page scrolls past." has escaped my notice til now, yikes. I have an entire skill [0] devoted to eliminating this kind of ui slop, sadly it missed this one.

The landing page is very old at this point and definitely needs a freshen-up. The exploded view feature was built before fastener support, so you are absolutely right about that. Sawdust already can do much better, here's the same Sawhorse project's guide [1], take a look at the video there to see the fasteners driven in with respect for actual physical collisions :)

If you do try the product out you can easily submit feedback through the MCP or via the ui chat, I get paged for every feature request and love working on things users actually want. Would highly value any additional feedback.

[0] https://gist.githubusercontent.com/birep/bb865b2799d3f86d55f...

[1] https://sawdust.diy/share/882f2473-d283-46d0-8f38-7b289253d6...

I’ve just built a kitchen that was 100% modelled in Sketchup 2017 - the free forever (AAUI?) version still available in a few places. The Mac version I use occasionally crashes, but otherwise it’s perfectly usable.

Until you upgrade to a new Mac which doesn't have the Intel chip which that version is compiled for and which lacks Rosetta.

It's one of the only software's I've felt genuinely zero remorse about pirating after purchasing a perpetual license and having them pull it out after. Adding to that the 3d warehouse forced backward-incompatibility on objects that you can trivially just open and export to an older version with zero differences to get it to work in most cases.

I sometimes wonder what would've happened to SketchUp if google hadn't sold it.

Would probably have become an addition to Google Graveyard

Sadly that may have been a better fate.

> I'm still peeved about the direction Trimble took

There is a name for it: "enshitification" is the strategy of maximizing short term gains, even if that results in product suicide on the long run.

Does enshitification cover setting the price to something sustainable?

Trimble bought Sketchup 14 years ago. In the world of commercial software, that's a decent run and they seem to be going strong. They just aren't interested in the nickel-and-dime world of selling to and dealing with consumers.