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Comment by Huarache1 | Hacker News Reader

Men and their ideals, are portrayed as inherently evil in a good chunk of western media. It's pretty obvious to anyone looking at the West from the outside.

It's also a reason why the West is failing, but certainly not the only one. Social Welfare states like Europe are burning, since it was never sustainable.

America is fighting among itself, because there is no Asabiyyah (social cohesion), and the wealth inequality (wealth pump) is growing massively.

Compare that with China or Singapore, where social harmony is perhaps the most important thing in their society, food is subsidized, education as a high priority, their laws are punitive, infrastructure is extremely new, etc.

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What are "men and their ideals"?

That’s a crazy comment for me.

I don’t think you’re open for a discussion but I’ll try; just judging from experience talking to other people who hold similar entrenched beliefs, I might be very wrong.

> Social Welfare states like Europe are burning

I live there and wasn’t aware that it’s burning - Europe also isnt a singular entity.

> the West is failing

I wasn’t aware of that either! Seems to me that western countries (I assume you mean US and EU with that?) still hold most of the power worldwide?

> Men and their ideals, are portrayed as inherently evil in a good chunk of western media

The opposite is also true. I think it’s just because most heroes and villains in western media are men - hell most characters are men.

Men are interested in things, while women are interested in people. That's probably why most characters are men overall. Same with men being more likely to be Autistic.

That being said, it's quite noticeable that people in the entertainment sector, who are probably marginalized, are directing some anger against men.

Ghostbusters 2016, likely started this, and I do wonder if it was to appease the women and other groups after the the #Metoo movement, where marginalized people were given a voice, to pretend that Hollywood was like them (they aren't, look at their governmental funding before #Metoo).

> Men are interested in things, while women are interested in people.

Seems like a generalisation. I’m a man and I’m more interested in people than in things for example.

> That's probably why most characters are men overall.

How does this follow what you wrote before; I don’t see any connection tbh

If men are into things, then they likely are into abstractions, concepts, ideas, etc. Stories are one of these. I remember there's neurological evidence to back this up, but I have no links on me currently.

France is burning because they're defaulting and can't pay for their social welfare benefits, and Germany's economy isn't doing so well. That's a good chunk of Europe's economy in a nutshell. Only Poland I believe, has improved and officially was considered developed since 2018.

France's West African colonies are also leaving France as they inch closer to China, politically and economically.

China is rising, and so are other (previously and currently) Third World nations. It's a matter of when they take power, not if. India and Indonesia seem to be heavy hitters, for now and probably for the near future. I wouldn't count out Africa (Nigeria, Kenya, Botswana, Rwanda) or Latin America (Mexico, El Salvador, Brazil, etc).

I stand by my statement of Western entertainment demeaning men, probably out of anger, or as something of an alibi for Hollywood after the #Metoo movement. Occupy Wallstreet is also notable for happening before this.

Germany has the third largest GDP worldwide so I don’t think it’s “not doing so well” considering how tiny it is.

China/Asia, South America and Africa have the most space, people and natural resources so it just makes sense that they would be more successful in the long run though.

>I stand by my statement

That is fair. I stand by mine that this doesn’t convince me. Of course men are the villains when they hold the most power. You can’t really be an effective or convincing villain if you’re powerless.

Germany made its money through high end production (which is handled by Asia) and its Mittelstand (which like most of the West, is starting to slow down massively).

Germany is still in a good position for Europe, but it can't compete as well as it once did compared to Asia or the US. Even then, the US is having issues with China.

"Of course men are the villains when they hold the most power."

I agree with the statement, but not the context.

Looking at Velma, Dragon Age: Veilguard, Ghostbusters 2016, Star Wars sequels, She-Hulk, and much more, a good chunk of such Western media feels like they have some disdain for a large portion of fans who watch them.

Like a Superiority complex formed out of deeprooted insecurities of their feelings towards men.

You could argue men have reacted to this in the same way, especially in Instagram and the like.

If you're going to use art to back up your point that society hates men, then there is a literal mountain of artwork throughout humanity that vilifies women.

Nobody should be villified for who they are born as, especially on Mainstream media. That's my point.

This is about a trend of the recent decades to reboot popular franchises with formerly male heroes and replace them with female versions (instead of, i.e. think up new female heroes).

If we're talking about where future art direction is going, then how much artwork from centuries ago exists is not relevant.

In that comment we have one example of this happening. The star wars sequels are an example of thinking up new female heroes.

I think it's gotten better? Ghost Busters: Afterlife (the movie following the 2016 one) also went back to their original cast and instead introduced Phoebe as a new protagonist.

I was noticing it most strongly with Disney. Not sure what was their strategy there, but for some period in the last few years, they seemed to go mechanically through their IP catalog and produce a life action reboot for each classic. The reboots were mostly unremarkable IMO, but they had a strange recurring pattern: Almost every one of them included one controversial change to the original setup that was guaranteed to rile up certain fans and cause drama, ostensibly in the name of DEI.

It became such a predictable occurrence that I'm honestly not sure if they really felt the need to "modernize" their classics, or if they were deliberately causing those controversies as a promotion tactic.

IMHO were cashing in on the ridiculous culture war - drama guarantees clicks -> free marketing -> more revenue.

The reboots are utter garbage even if you disregard the woke1.0 updates

Btw Disney has always been garbage and always will be. If we use that as the measuring stick for culture idk

Disney's Quality has been downhill since Pinocchio, that being said, I'm not expecting Jorge Borgesian tier quality of prose, introspection and self-awareness within the plot. I'm expecting it to be enjoyable popcorn flicks.

But i'm getting terrible movies that also preach massively. Even without the preaching, it's terrible, but preaching certainly makes it even worse than what it was due to the immense hypocrisy of a gigantic corporation asking us to do better while it absolutely does worse daily.

Yeah we need more of that. Humanity did well when women were kept in the kitchen

Surely if this is indeed a good chunk of western media you would need to reach for an example from a decade ago.

those examples you listed are really not representative of media in general - i don’t even know half of them! Most of these are fanslop anyway, utter garbage even before their woke 1.0 versions. Like ghostbusters or Star Wars sequels were never good And to my knowledge for example the ghostbusters was a major flop.

Sounds to me like you get your knickers in a twist for a huge nothingburger

Consistent releases of the machine known as Hollywood always influences (or attempts to influence) the wider Western zeitgeist.

This was true for America's soft power for years, until very recently, which happened to coincide with the #Metoo movement, and the drying up of (direct) American governmental funding.

Deriding them for quality alone misses the point i'm trying to make. This wouldn't be ok if the demographics were swapped with a more "vulnerable" one. So why should this be ok?

> I live there and wasn’t aware that it’s burning - Europe also isnt a singular entity.

As a resident of Portland OR, I'm all too familiar with people pointing to protests confined to a few downtown city blocks as evidence of the entire city being burned to the ground.

Seems like France/Europe is currently suffering from that same sort of propaganda. "Europe is so far gone because thr Gucci store in Paris got looted and some cop cars burned."

Historically, French protests have always been rowdy and widespread. I don't think Portland's protests were even close to what France has seen.

French protests are known for their ferocity in European context, yes. But what was dominant in the recent weeks were not protests, it was the rioting. Obviously.

People protesting poor school conditions don't burn down their schools or random public buildings.

Protests and Riots in France make little historical distinctions ever since the invention of the Guillotine.

It's unspoken, but obvious in their culture, to almost act barbaric in protests.

Your description seems to ignore that a historic town hall that survived two world wars was invaded and torched, and burnt to the ground, and that entire neighbourhoods -public spaces- in major cities have been turned into warzones from weeks of riots involving hundreds of thousands of people, causing extensive property damage, widespread feeling of insecurity and environmental damage.

Your takeaway from this was apparently 'looted luxury store and burned cop cars'.

Is it your source of news that's to blame for that misapprehension, or your personal stance on things?

edit: typo

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