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Comment by CalRobert | Hacker News Reader

For all of America's many problems, if you're a 20's-30's high performer, moving to the US can absolutely make sense. Do you want to make $400k a year, have great investment options, and retire at 40, or make €80-100k a year with extremely heavy taxes?

(Bias disclosure: grew up in norcal, moved to Europe from California in 2013. I like living here but it certainly wasn't great for my career. It's like living in a forgotten backwater. You watch the future being built from abroad.)

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It's hard to make 400k, even in NYC or SF. Not impossible or rare, but hard. Even more so at 25. And when you achieve that, how much are you spending on rent and life expenses? Do you have kids? There are a lot of factors here, and the only people I know close to retirement at 40 have no kids and won big in the startup lottery (a few mil in RSUs before 40) or hard core OCD (known colloquially as FIRE: meaning you meticulously keep a budget, fly economy, don't drink or go out to eat). Again, not saying that you can't save, but after taxes (which are going to be 45% in California or New York) and rent (5K for a one bedroom) and life expenses (dinner is now 100 dollars per person), you'll definitely save money, but you're not retiring in 10-15 years.

It's hard not to make more money and spend it such that you're not saving a lot, because you unconsciously live like your peers.

It seems the optimal solution is to move to the US for your early earning years, build a nest egg, then leave once you get older and especially once you plan to start a family, for a number of (non-exhaustive) reasons:

* Vacation time in the US is paltry and often downright exploitative.

* Our for-profit healthcare system can easily wipe out any wealth you've accumulated upon a major medical episode, depending on what kind of coverage your insurance provides. Said coverage is usually determined by your employer.

* Education in the US is a joke compared to virtually every other developed nation.

* The homocide rate in the US is higher than 75% of other countries.

* Consumer protections in the US are virtually non-existent.

* Food quality is poor - e.g., virtually all foods have tons of corn syrup and other sugars added.

* The country as a whole is overly car-centric. Your day-to-day in the US virtually requires the use of a car, as most cities are not designed with walking or biking in mind, and only a few have useful public transportation.

Yeah, big part of why I live in the Netherlands. Though having lived in NL and IE I wouldn't say the health care I've had here has been particularly good.

Food - well that varies. Dutch food is... unexciting, to say the least.

Ignoring the economic aspects, California feels a lot like a forgotten backwater. Compared to any other center of economic activity, California feels like it's at the edge of the world. You have a few cities and plenty of towns and suburbs, but everything else is far away. To go anywhere else, you have to take a plane and fly for hours.

And the ocean is empty, which is the most shocking part. You rarely see any ships outside the major ports. There are no ships, because it's not a convenient way to go anywhere. Because there is nothing out there.

> if you're a 20's-30's high performer, moving to the US can absolutely make sense

I entirely agree with this conclusion, especially if you don't plan to raise a family in the US, but still I think the difference isn't as great as what you say.

You have similar investment options in the EU vs US. Tax is high in California. And you probably won't retire at 40 with $400 a year unless you've been very agressive and lucky with your investment.

I can talk about my person situation, big tech in EU, I contemplated relocation in the US (which my company would sponsor). I'd be better off financially in the US after a few years but worse job security and WLB, but it's not night and day. Main issue in EU + UK is lack opportunities compared other US, but there are some.

Retirement is going to be pretty boring for a high performer, so you either have to convert that cash into starting your own business or likely keep working the same job you already have. Entrepreneurship might have a certain appeal, so I wouldn't discount that to those who have that dream, but if you stay in a job then you have to start asking what all that money is going to actually buy you. Both incomes are going to get you to a point where you already won't be able to spend it all.

Realistically, the question isn't meaningfully answered in isolation. One would have to see the bigger picture to put it into context.

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