Show HN: My $300 embroidery machine needed a subscription, so I built my own app
github.com
github.com
Your app represents a future that I, an old, actually love. When I see projects like this, I don't think about ongoing support or if the project will be abandoned. I think, "Woah, I hadn't thought of that. Now I'm going to try it. Because why wouldn't I try to get all the value I can out of my $20/month Claude subscription?"
Even though I've been a developer for 30+ years (and a nerd for longer), I've never felt so motivated by the potential of a technology to make an individual's life richer. Thanks for sharing it.
And if you wrote it by hand, my hat's off to you for sharing that, too.
Codex did it and flashed it in 1 minute.
I'm all for AI safety, but this sounds more like corpo preference safety to me.
The more people do stuff like this, the better. Subscription based e-waste is awful.
When I'm doing stuff like this, I always have this thought in the back of my head like "man, this is awesome- I bet they try to stop people from doing stuff like this soon". Like there'll be an in-built "do not assist in reverse engineering or circumventing subscription-based services" instruction.
I'm sure if the field hadn't been moving so fast they would have tried, but it's kind of already decided unless they take away general computation.
They already are.
I've also recently seen here on HN an initiative to torrent "rare" models, but I can't manage to find it back.
You don’t have to ban things. You just have to harder to get them than the alternatives.
Right now we benefit from a massive number of people participating as creators and users. What happens when that slows to a trickle?
Let’s start with the first obvious one: what happens when uncensored/abliterated models are pulled from HF? How many people will just shrug and say “well I guess I don’t use those anymore”? Because previously it was simply download LM studio, search, click on the model you want. The end. Suddenly it is much more difficult
It’s not going to stop with hugging face just like ID requirements aren’t stopping at pornography. It is much harder to regain these things once they are lost.
A better example to illustrate my point and distinguish my actual stance from what you’re saying would be if the Pirate Bay went down today or suddenly became far more difficult to access, such as legislation passing in major nations making it illegal and reasonably enforceable on the individual level for having the media/browsing TPB. If everybody had to go to private trackers and communities there would be a severe drop in participation, and a subsequent severe drop in available media for pirating as seeders would drop in number.
TPB is a very critical central repository for most people pirating, just like hugging face is for abliterated/uncensored models. If you make it more difficult to access these things, fewer people will access them. This is not controversial in the slightest.
The music / tv show industry / gaming industry did not buckle because people are willing to pay for convenience but they still lost revenue. Gabe Newell's wisdom has come true, make a game affordable and easy to buy and people will buy rather than pirate. Same goes for music, streaming is cheap enough that I don't care to pirate music.
I do pirate TV shows because they're not all in the same place and the picture quality streaming services offer is bad. And pirating has never been hard for anyone with even a little bit of computer knowledge.
And I still don't get what your solution is, hugginface has the right to do whatever they want in a free market. If you made it an utility then the state might decide to censor it. The only real solution is torrenting.
We know with populations of a certain size, any barrier is going to cause people to drop off. We see it over and over again. Why is this going to be any different? The more technical it feels, the more impenetrable it feels, so people will simply turn to ChatGPT or anthropic or whoever and pay them a subscription. Is that what we want? Like what are you even arguing with me about?
> We know with populations of a certain size, any barrier is going to cause people to drop off
but the population size of people who will self host is not large.
> The more technical it feels, the more impenetrable it feels
you have to be inherently technical to even consider the option to run locally no matter how easy. what would a non technical person even use a local LLM for, that they wouldn't want to do with CGPT or ANT?
also, even considering reverse engineering any software at all requires technical knowledge. 99% of lay people don't even know it's an option let alone start vibe coding a RE on a local LLM
A lot of people also work on projects because they want people to use it. If the number of people utilizing different peoples takes on models drops, than people are going to lose interest in making them for other people. We all like to point to the altruism of the open source world, but nobody likes to release something only for no people to use it. That’s a very natural feeling that leads to people not releasing things because they’re too niche and such.
Anyway I’m just moving on. I don’t understand how I’m having to defend “increased barriers to entry dissuades people from participation and creation.” Some of y’all don’t think it’s a big deal or it’s somehow not applicable, but I can’t say I agree
gosh this thread is about RE, this point is just irrelevant here.
Barriers to entry are a thing. Look at Linux or general open source adoption. Convenience is important.
Also, for each device/group of devices, this only has to be done by a single determined person. It's not something that _everyone_ has to be able to do to have a transformative effect.
I can survive hugging face not hosting this stuff, but a number of my peers probably would throw up their hands and move on. And I don’t blame them, it gets exhausting fighting every single service in our lives trying to make it work for us. We eventually have to pick and choose. I don’t have time to jailbreak and hack together everything in my life. That’s why I have an iPhone and a more privacy focused/hardened, controlled Linux computer.
I don’t get why I’m having to defend my stance against barriers to entry here to be honest! It’s surprising
They won't need to do that. All they'll need to do is use one of the sites/services set up by folks like you and me, who can set up an LM studio.
I just feel like some of you are inadvertently advocating for “only the most determined should be allowed to participate.”
Prepare.
A lot of my clients have a need for partly embedded software, and partly applications. That's always been more remunerative than strictly app level software. The change I have observed since last year is that the app part can get a lot more ambitious and user-friendly on the kind of budget hardware makers allocate for that.
Claude now refuses to reverse engineer games to fix compatibility issues on Linux/Proton, particularly in relation to anti-cheat software. Codex still works, and while Claude is still useful for other types of work, I am considering a migration to GLM and DeepSeek.
Of course, I had to assuage the clankers fears by setting up a fake scenario before sending the one-shot, but I assume everyone does that nowadays.
Local and open source models are more important than ever, or those who control the hardware will dictate what AI can or cannot be used for.
From the Jensen thread:
> I hope this won't change NVIDIA's refusal to block inference for unsigned and registered open-models in the firmware of modern GPUs. Anthropic and others are pushing hard on this. First the hardware export ban, eventually the software one via hardware-enforced execution controls like IETF hinted at
I think they call that a Mac Studio now.
My experience has been that arguing with a model about its own guardrails is unnecessary hassle.
I find it much easier to rewind the poisoned session to a point where the refusal hasn't occurred (or start a new session), then repeat your request with your rebuttal already baked in.
the concept of safety can't really exist independently of who gets to decide what is and isn't safe
I can't use a tool that silently drops down to a lower intelligence, or refuses, or doesn't think I should be doing something. I would much rather lose 5% of the benchmaxxed scores and actually be able to do something reasonable.
Don't even get me started on the fact Claude still has 5 hour limits, what a way to kill any flow.
I would consider the defining line between reverse engineering a product and a meaningful breach of security. For example: finding a remote vulnerability, bad. Finding a vulnerability that requires physical access, perfectly fine. While you can do harm with the latter, it is much more probable the person is the owner of the device. Finding a vulnerability in an embroidery machine, fine. Finding a vulnerability in a phone, bad. In the former case, it is highly unlikely to contain personal data. In the latter case, it is highly likely to contain personal data.
I realize not everyone is going to agree with this, unfortunately security is a very real concern these days and people don't appear to be willing or able to say how their data is collected and stored.
So even though you are instructing it to do something, Anthropic knows it points to them.
This is a side effect of corporations owning the models closed source. It's all well and good, they deserve to make money with their products. But open weight models and open source harnesses are the only way forward.
End of the day, they get to choose how their model is used, and we can vote with our feet.
But not knowing in the moment that you’re doing anything “wrong”, is terrible to then get warned over- now you have to second guess as presumably warnings add up to getting cut off. The refusals suck, but at least they’re at the right point in the process.
DRM for the agentic coding age
I presume it's some internal steering neither it nor I are privy to, but the "whatever fuck it I'm not listening" was kinda hilarious at the time.
The Computer is your friend.
We had a short argument about how rich I though it was that AI was giving me grief about scraping data off the internet. Finally I told it I owned a physical copy of the book (which I do) and it happy relented and assembled the pdf for me.
Recently both Claude and ChatGPT refused to help me download a "backup" of an old movie you couldn't get elsewhere.
Chinese models had no qualms.
^satire
Thinking of it, I strongly self-censor when interacting with hosted AI. Knowing that the conversations are all going god-knows-where and likely kept for eternity as training data or worse, I keep out certain data (PII, business details), and probably also subconsciously do things differently.
That's why I also have a local model for dictation - wouldn't want all that I say go to the cloud.
But enjoy it while you can, because for all their singing the praises of how it empowers people now, as soon as it actually, you know, empowers the people, the establishment will start shutting it down on one side while enshittification starts eating it from the other.
Both of those trends have already started, they're just being outrun by the pace of progress and the need for revenue. But both of those things will eventually pass.
This 'safeguard' was most likely implemented immediately after the reverse engineer anything news a month back.
Being completely right doesn't feel as good as I thought, but it's still pretty good.
But I don't see anything moving yet.
I'm speculating here but I also love how a new tool, despite it's obvious limitations and side effects, can open up a whole workflow and liberate device. Yet... most projects like this I have seen are not as novel as they seem. They mostly seem to democratize or popularize hard work done elsewhere.
To give a concrete example somebody posted here on HN some months ago how to use a tablet on Mac that lacked drivers. I commented it was amazing, someone replied the open source Linux driver had been available for years. I noticed another project like this after, now I'm wondering if it's a pattern. It would still be useful work, but not as novel as it initially seem.
Or alternatively... why wouldn't the device OEM add support for <new feature> on <ancient garbage> if it's just a few tokens away.
>Even though I've been a developer for 30+ years (and a nerd for longer), I've never felt so motivated by the potential of a technology to make an individual's life richer. Thanks for sharing it.
Working in industry killed my desire to do any sort of computer stuff on the side. With AI handling the grunt work of setting up tooling and writing the bulk of the code I've started doing stuff again.
Because of planned obselence?
Hobbyist can use LLM to RE, Manufactures can use LLM to harden their devices.
I won't be surprised if the last step in FW release pipeline is "Letting LLM to RE your FW in 48 hours, pass when agent fail to RE".
It will be cat chasing mouse game, the winner is the one with bigger gun.
LLMs are realizing the potential of the computer revolution.
Those heady dreams of Xanadu, Xerox PARC, Douglas Engelbart, and Bret Victor today? They're finally possible.
That’s the magic; the barrier is down.
You can study for a lifetime to become Yen Sid and teach the broom to fetch water for you without lifting a finger, or you can just fetch the dang water yourself in 10 minutes.
People all have access to a ton of computer hardware which is capable of remarkable things.
Historically they have been restricted in what problems they can actually bring that hardware to bear on by the availability of software tailored to their specific need.
LLMs are capable of unleashing the power of your computer hardware to do all sorts of things you never would have been able to consider before.
Regardless, the project looks insanely cool. I had no idea that you can buy a stitching machine that you can program. It sounds a bit like a CNC machine for cloth! I guess this is how a lot of cool embroided clothes are made that you see on Etsy.
The FSF also did not think about another freedom that is included when work becomes so cheap it is essentially free:
"The freedom to not pay for your software or for support."
Luckily, the free market is still functioning, and Chinese models will continue to exist (at least for a while), so we can continue to enjoy competitive rates.
But, as you saw with the crash of the AI stocks at the moment of the midterm results, a left leaning administration (for better or worse) will probably slow the US tech sector down with more regulation, of various types, raising those prices up. It'll be interesting to see if the capabilities are also restricted more, through regulation.
Will this stop operating if you unsubscribe from claude?
Will add-on work from chatgpt or Kimi or Qwen require starting from scratch?
Obviously, the answer is 'no'. So regardless of the "do you understand the code" purity test, this is still a net good, both for this customer, and others who can make use of this work.
I know people get a bit salty about outsiders coming in and showing stuff they 'built', and it does feel a bit like they shouldn't get the praise for something they basically spent a few evenings prompting into existence, but I think the better way of looking at is this: They had a need, they solved it, they shared it. Hopefully this helps other people as well.
I can understand the feeling of 'this isn't fair' if you're a lone third party developer who spent months of work developing an alternative that you sell for $30 a seat to a market of maybe 10000 people. Still, though. Plenty of occupations have gone through the same thing. Seamstress, farrier, lamp lighter, travel agent. I don't think the solution is trying to make occupations into gate-kept guilds.
That said, > I know people get a bit salty about outsiders coming in and showing stuff they 'built', and it does feel a bit like they shouldn't get the praise for something they basically spent a few evenings prompting into existence
Let's not jump to conclusion about someone's motivation.
This is why I started saying I've directed a thing instead of saying I built it.
Why aren't they forming their own planetoid?
20$ Claude making some app that a skilled engineer could make in a few weekends doesn’t change the face of earth. Actually if Claude made the world’s greatest embroidery software that no human could ever make, it still doesn’t matter because frankly most software does not matter much. Your average house has more meaning and longevity than a piece of software.
Any reduction in e-waste and user empowerment is a cause to be celebrated. The catalyst for GNU was not being able to fix printer drivers. For all its evils and ills, I am so happy to see useless objects essentially being “repaired” by normal people using LLM assisted coding. Software ate the world, but now that the world can make its own software it, for the time being, tips the balance back in favor of the common man.
Have you ever looked into writing embroidery design software? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" based on this comment.
It's in the same league as writing a mini-Inkscape and a 3D printing slicer, except that AFAIK there were previously no open source options to base it off of.
Embroidery machine manufacturers go out of their way to avoid letting their customers make their own designs - even when the customer has purchased a $10k machine. The last time I looked into options for DIY designs, the only realistic option was Embird, which cost hundreds of dollars at the time. This project is super neat, and would have taken months or years for someone to write from scratch.
With many fundamental real problems in the world - resource shortage, pollution, wealth inequality, disease. Watching a circle jerk about AI "fixing" an artificially created non-problem is just bizarre and a waste of resources.
Now I will say there is more to embroidery than one might first expect. It's got some overlap with image editing but only to a point. The stitching really matters and to make it stitch out well requires sort of a lot of rules about how to do that. Most software is either $1000+ and requires you take a course, or there's a subscription but you're really just downloading designs and sending them to your machine. There's a fairly healthy market of people selling embroidery designs on Etsy in part I believe because digitizing for embroidery is not that easy and requires expensive software. So people often just buy designs rather than make them themselves.
To make things worse, basically no embroidery digitizing software was available on Android or iOS and it usually was just Windows. So I set out to build the easiest digitizing software which would also work on mobile devices which means you have to design around things like no key combos, no right click, etc. So while I expected it wouldn't be that hard to write embroidery digitizing software, I learned that just being able to send a PES/DST/etc file to a machine was really not the hard part. So kudos to the OP writing his own software. Gotta break that grip of Big Embroidery.
I did briefly look at what it would take to build a competitor, but it was a bit daunting. Kudos to you for giving it a go.
I do think AI will be a wreaking ball for the entire software industry.
The PE-150 is a great example of the absurdity/sadness of the embroidery world: today, you can have those machines for $100 on eBay, completely functional, but being sold/abandoned because they use a proprietary cartridge holding proprietary data that no one wants to deal with.
Even novel Brother machines that have USB connectors still force you to use terrible apps and lock you into subscriptions. This entire world - which is/should be full of twee and about making beautiful things with your hands - is somehow corrupted with this merchandising/everything-software-should-have-a-price mentality which is just so sad.
Nothing to announce announce, but I 100000000000000000000000000000000000% want to make embroidery machines more accessible, open, and free of this balagan.
A few more links on this topic:
- https://github.com/CreativeInquiry/PEmbroider !! Check the "Motivation" section of the readme!
- https://emberdesign.net/ - a startup by another friend, with a really great online editor, and which exports a variety of formats
[0] https://owentrueblood.com/blog/2024/12/10/reverse-engineerin...
I'm happy to say that I am very much fighting this fight! The embroidery software ecosystem is pretty wild. Insanely expensive proprietary software with interfaces straight out of Windows 95, arbitrary operating system restrictions, and surprisingly little open-source tooling.
A big part of what we're trying to do with Ember is make embroidery digitizing more accessible. To that end I've been building an open-source JavaScript/TypeScript library called stitchjs (https://github.com/stitchables/stitchjs), with the goal of making it easier for other developers to build their own embroidery tools.
And on the hardware side we've been developing an open source ESP32 dongle that plugs directly into embroidery machines and lets you send designs to them wirelessly from the browser (https://github.com/EmberSoftwareInc/ember-link). The idea of a $10 microcontroller bridging the gap between modern software and decades of proprietary embroidery hardware is pretty exciting to me.
There's so much room for open source software and hardware in this space. Really cool to see more people working on it!
Seems very promising. I have a home recording studio, and there's a small revolution going on with people cloning subscription-based stuff. Some brands are notorious for making expensive equipment which they just stop supporting after 10 years, sometimes rendering them obsolete. Or tacking ridiculous licensing mechanism onto the equipment.
That is the hope; although we'll end up with either companies doubling down on cryptography to prevent this (though they will inevitably leave some holes), or changing business models, where the hardware loss leader -> subscription is no longer a thing, so hardware costs go up
Maybe to an outsider it seems like none is being made by companies you recognize, but to us in music, lots of big brands are changing tune. Erica Synths (big in both desktop gear and modular synths), Polyend, Akai/MPC, Moog and more.
Sadly, Elektron is not yet on the wagon of change, but surely they'll find their ways soon too I hope.
But to say none of them are "well known" is very far from the truth, Moog is probably as "legacy" as any brand can get and still sell hardware today.
I pray for the day! This business model is a fingernail's thickness away from lying. It's outright lying when applied retroactively to products that used to not need a subscription.
A from scratch embroidery program could lift all of these options to the top layer UI where they belong, but understandably rebuilding the whole editor part is a lot of code.
a) the UI/UX is really bad
b) it surprised me how much of the process is manual. (Maybe it shouldn’t, since it’s essentially a CAM process and even high end CAM packages for CNC require a lot of skilled human input)
Definitely potential for improvement.
You do have tons of options for stitch patterns and things that 3d prints bake in the design but I’m sure something more automatic is doable.
Definitely agree that a mostly-automated stitch generator should be possible.
I think that one was built with Claude (he wanted to embroider cats on merch, and didn't like the expensive subscription software's ancient UX).
The one that happens any time you drive straight without turning (like... say... on an interstate) because it's about driving straight not a tactile steeringwheel sensor?
There is already prior art like anything Google (phones, Fitbit)
I was working on 2.4ghz remote reverse engineering and Claude wrote esp8266 firmware to drive nrf24l01 before deciding there was an issue with too small send buffer and pivoting to custom nrf52840 firmware for usb dongle. Original device used LT8920 I couldn't find anywhere anymore
So a monopoly / duopoly is a better alternative?
This makes absolutely no sense and is just completely unrealistic in the economic sense from a startup perspective.
Why a monopoly/duopoly? Embroidery machine companies will still continue to exist, they just won't be able to sell the machine at a low price point and recoup the money via subscription. It's a business model that has existed for thousands of years: I do the thing, you buy the thing, our business relationship ends. Maybe they will have less money and they will innovate less and they will sell at a higher price. We will survive, they will survive.
> completely unrealistic in the economic sense from a startup perspective.
Are you implying that startups can only exist if they can access a subscription based revenue? We had thousands of successful startups in the past that made money building typewriters or embroidery machines or hoovers without subscriptions. Not sure why recurring revenue is now a necessary condition to be a startup.
Life was better before the internet which allowed companies to remotely put their hands in our pockets.
People don't appreciate the concept of being "offline" as much as they should.
Such are the good old days. /s
btw unrelated, i ll add your replacement story in https://replacemrr.com/ as its the kind of stories i am looking for!
> Not yet run against a real Skitch.
So it possibly doesn't work on anything.
About a year into doing this, they patched it so the license server would save your HWID and would not run in a VM anymore. I decided to just give up on the hobby right there.
Maybe this will finally get me to pull the machine out of the garage and get back into it!
So you're saying you put a pin in it?
I live in a farm. I am software engineer and gave up city life few years ago. Now, all I dream of is automating little things in my chicken farm and growing the business. Not in the mechanical monstrous way that makes me hate eating meat. But a balance in between with actual daily physical work and care. And tiny little automation ideas. Measure food intake, an automatic weight check, door closer/opener, heating control... so many things. And I do not want to buy the best "Chicken Star 3000" model, I want to make these out of microcontrollers with tiny mechanical parts that I can assemble. AI helping me all the way.
I also have a small sewing machine. I want to get a larger one. I want to make "patch" clothes, jackets. I love them. From scrap clothes, etc. What a time to tinker!
I’ve been using InkStitch, but learning vector graphics for non-technical people is not user friendly. An upcoming app that is quite promising is StitchPencil, developer by a German engineer. Looks solid!
Btw I believe nowadays you can easily let Claude build you software that replaces the subscription entirely.
Cricut's software is such a bloated and dysfunctional steaming pile of garbage but the machine itself seems well built.
“…all they have to say is there was a countermeasure. The toolmaker bypasses the countermeasure. And then that’s a felony…”
Another hotel uses different vendor locks with a different encoder. They don't also provide APIs or way to integrate. I just order a new encoder for that. Hopefully, we can figure that out too.
In addition to the digitizer, I am building my own set of heuristics that give designs a "better" outcome but things are really a work in progress right now.
Embroidery is a really fun hobby for me so i'm basically optimizing for "what I need" as I learn more about it!
Also don't forget Linus him self wrote one of the embroidery machine drivers for Linux.
I used to use the Melco and Pantagrams digitizing software and operated kiosks doing custom embroidery.
People always asked "can I get anything on a hat?" The reasons I said no before no longer exist.
Punching out a DST is not the same as clean sewouts and NewHat attempts some machine emulation and classification of generated designs. They're virtually sewn and ranked for some reinforcement learning.
Many apps/products can be freed and owners can take ownership of what's theirs. It doesn't even need to be a community effort as you can make something fully tailored. It also frees you from gated app stores as distribution channels, and all the unnecessary tracking.
It will take years for many nasty apps/companies to catch up, so nerds should enjoy this new superpower.
It seems a lot of the magic comes from Respira (https://github.com/jhbruhn/respira), there were already open source softwares to avoid using the subscription app.
Also the $300 price was probably secondhand/on sale because that machine is usually 499, not 300.
Still a cool project, but you'd think this was reverse engineered from scratch from the description whereas this is more like a downloader wrapping yt-dlp
I'm curious, how do you make sure that the embroidery files are valid of the file type (.exp) for example, and that B) things aren't done in such a way that cause the needle to break, stiches to overlap too much, etc etc that would otherwise harm a machine that reads the file?
https://github.com/broideryfab/embroidery-ksy
Binary formats IDE:
https://broideryfab.com/formats/ide/
Next, I plan to test it on real devices and track a compatibility verification matrix
Judging by Nintendo's recent action it seems like a new game of whack a mole currently...
what machine would you recommend to someone looking to get into this as a hobby?
What benefits (if any) does the subscription offer?
https://www.libembroidery.org/
Always room for another though.
So.. eh.
I mean it's cool and all, and at least claude did do proper attribution in the code, but your post kinda does not and neither does the readme.
That's not exactly in spirit of FOSS.
Because in a sense it's anti-shitifction... it allows you to extend the lifespan of some thing... repurpose others..
Try to root some old phone and any big house model will refuse...
Ask Qwen to decompile an app... and once decompiled claude has no issues continuing work.
1. AI coding gives privacy-focused software creators more ability to create great UX allowing for them to be more serious alternatives to privacy-invasive software and services.
For example, I've tried Matrix many times and I've never liked the UX, but recently I started using Fluxer, an open source discord alternative, and it has excellent UX.
2. AI makes software more secure. You cannot have privacy without security so AI improving security is good for our privacy. Frontier AI does not write more insecure code than human coders so it's overall great for privacy.
3. AI accelerates reverse engineering of closed source software. This can help discover spying e.g. the LG TV spying news recently, and can also make closed source software work for the user instead of against.
I recently made 4 tweaks to apps to make them more privacy focused:
I added self-hosted E2EE to a closed source to-do app and made an Android app.
I patched a closed source workout app to make it work completely offline, unlock premium, and remove unnecessary permissions. The app is now 600 MB because of videos! I also did this with a habits app. Before, both these apps connected to 40+ domains for tracking and their services, now they don't have the network permission.