Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source
wireframeapp.com
wireframeapp.com
Honestly, this seems a bit like a publicity stunt to me. Everyone loves hating on Apple these days, and if you can tie it to "look at my new opensource project", then BAM, it hits HN front page.
I posted on HN because most readers are also programmers and they are exactly whom will fork the project, etc. That said, yep, it can be considered a 'publicity stunt', but you make it sound as something bad. I really just want that those interested get in touch.
Because you've basically admitted that your post is disingenuous. The DUNS requirement is easily sidestepped in the short term and a complete non-issue in the long term.
Plus, it helps keep out the less motivated.
Actually, it took me 8 days to open the company. At the first day I had the CNPJ (EIN in the US), so, in fact, it took me less than 24 hours to be able to accept payments.
I don't see the app store as a viable way of making a living anymore (for single developers). I'll try to build something that doesn't depend of other company's mood.
Secondly, I don't understand your anger at Apple. They don't control DUNS numbers. It's not their fault that you're having a problem getting one.
My understanding is that DUNS was not always a requirement for companies publishing on the iOS App Store. It was added about a year and a half ago (?) and given the timing and what DUNS represents it seems reasonable to assume that it was added as a reaction to app spammers and scammers that would run fly by night operations, take people's money and run.
DUNS may not have been the best solution and like other areas of the submission/approval process it seems there are some obvious quality of life improvements Apple should implement but in the big picture what is the alternative to DUNS?
(1) Go back to scammer friendly system. Yeah I don't see that happening.
(2) Apple holds the money for longer. I don't see people lining up for this option.
(3) Everyone has to buy insurance. Spoilers: insurer asks for DUNS number.
(4) A better partner than D&B. Is there one? The US government appears to be looking for alternatives as well[1] but it doesn't look like there is a good replacement.
[1] http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-715R
GSA has been conducting an analysis of alternatives for the use of Dun & Bradstreet's DUNS entity unique identifier and is expected to complete its analysis by March 30, 2013.
I can't complain about the speed in getting a DUNS number, since it was quiet fast. Being in Canada, I was surprised how fast they were able to validate my newly created corporation. But I am not sure why we're to believe that D&B have special abilities. Incorporation documents are publicly available.
Yes crazy, but that's how governments work. Here in Poland you there is a problem with this also. Most of the time you have to register a company to be able to do anything that is not "working for someone else". E.g. when you put AdSense on your webpage and make some money you should do it under a company, not as an individual. Similarly with appstores.
It's funny, but you also have to admire the optimism. If it only was accompanied with more persistence.
If you're planning to build a company, I don't think this will be your biggest problem. Unless, if you're doing this part time, then its even easier, just get an individual account.
It was never a "viable way of making a living" in the sense you describe. Who told you you can "release an app every 3-5 months and make 60k/year at least"?
For one, a proper apps takes a lot more time.
Second, no app is guaranteed to make anything at all.
Especially if it's coming from someone that hasn't made released any other iPhone app, doesn't know the market and doesn't know Objective-C! The App Store is like any other market: it takes effort, determination, hard work and/or luck.
And you devised all this plan (and even paid to start a company) without even testing the waters with a single app? Perhaps seeing something in the range of 2K a year for your first app (as many developers do, and most even less) would have spared you all this trouble.
Seems to me like you had this idea that the App Store was like a money printing service, where you just churn out some apps and roll in the dough, and in the first sign of trouble (and BS trouble at that, like the DUNS requirement) you demand the free money you were promised...
This seems more like wishful thinking (and underestimating the effort and polish needed) than a serious business decision.
>I reached a point where I'm no longer interested in building apps for the app store, apple asks too much and give us too little.
It asks for: a Mac to work (lots of people have one already) on, a $99/year iOS developer account and 30% of your sales.
With that you get: an quite capable IDE for free, a top-notch SDK, tons of documentation, access to a market of 100+ million devices and one-click credit card accounts that is KNOWN to sell billions of apps.
Seems like a bargain. Heck, companies used to sell a developer license for their SDK at the price of a high-end Mac itself -- and without providing access to any market or a free IDE. A lot still do.
What exactly have you provided to feel so entitled? A half-finished app, built while "learning Objective-C"?
Why is this any different? So what you can't depend on a "New Release" list anymore - do something else to get attention. That's basically a fundamental part of our creed, as hackers and as creators.
I agree with you though and I think the hackers will move elsewhere. Im excited to see if people move across to android etc for exactly this reason.
iOS will taper off eventually but Apple will milk every cent before that happens.
If it were me doing it now, I would develop for iOS because thats where the money is at the moment. Having said that, you need to deal with the hoops that this developer is talking about. To my mind that is just part of doing business though.
Android playing with low margins has so far just resulted in it wining a huge share of the demographic that doesn't buy many apps and don't much care for smartphones anyway.
The App Store can probably be more profitable than Android apps even with 1/10 the users -- as long as those are the right users.
Not sure. It's been thirty years since the "desktop PC" market and Apple still commands the majority of the profits from personal computers sold.
(Lots of techies and tinkerers also choose Android for it being more "open", but those are an insignificant minority that doesn't mean anything money wise).
Thanks for sharing.
If building and selling your own products is your goal then there are other platforms and distribution channels that are much less hostile to the small indie dev.
Apple hasn't removed the New Release section, it was two taps for me to find the Top Free/Paid apps in each category and the process for registration for single developers hasn't changed.
I also don't agree that getting into mobile apps is a bad thing right now. If you can make something great you have every opportunity to do well.
"The source code will become public as soon as all drawing tools (those white boxes on the tool bar) are functional. This should take some days (around 20-40 LOC per tool) I’m also trying to clean some some mess (lots on unused assets, etc)"
I may have read this the wrong way, but it sounds like your app is incomplete and you've got at least another 20-30 days development to get things feature complete and thoroughly tested. Would Apple even accept the app to the App Store in it's current state?
If it was me I'd have plugged away at the red tape during those 20-30 days of development before chucking the towel in.
Those are just scripts that render objects, the app is fully developed. In fact, they are PDFs drawn in adobe illustrator and just added to a JSON file. The lines of code are just stub classes.
Someone who doesn't have patience decides that selling apps for money is not for them. Fine.
Entrepreneurship requires a lot of hard work and patience. You need to be resourceful.[1] Big news.
It doesn't need to be substantive or revelatory to be on front page; it just needs to be sensational and attractive. It should be no surprise considering the shit that passes for "news" on most blogs and lesser publications.
Let's say the recipient of your "Dear Apple" email decided to forgive and forget; what you've got left is an announcement to the rest of us about your inability to be civil under stress. Temporary relief aside it pays to be polite. Even on the internet.
But believe me, this came to the point where I almost cried of anger. The sentiment of powerlessness is strong.
I never went to D&B to get one, so... anyone know why I have one already?
[1]https://developer.apple.com/ios/enroll/dunsLookupForm.action
Having said that, the submission process didn't explain what a DUNs number was important for and it seemed like a weird thing to need...i share the frustration.
I was stuck last year with a tight deadline for one of my enterprise apps (which needed the DUNS for me to publish) and I used this method; it cost me nothing and was complete within a few days.
As far as I'm concerned it's just another business number that I need to apply for.
You won't get far in business if you don't have the patience to put up with all the stupid paperwork.
1. Why don't you just register as an individual and then convert the account to a company one once you get your DUNS number? 2. Why is it taking so longer to get the DUNS number? I registered my business with the government then applied for the DUNS number and got it instantly via email[1].
"Why don't you just register as an individual"
* The "open letter" goes from addressing Apple to addressing potential developers.
* What does open-sourcing give you other than people to help you write code for free? You still can't put the app on the app store and therefore can't release it to users.
You can get it on third-party app stores instantly already.
I don't see what problem you're solving by open sourcing, therefore this is just a misguided publicity grab.
If this hiccup is going to stop you creating new things, you're not going to get far.
I'm not really solving any problem by open sourcing it, but as I give up developing for the app store my idea is to open source it, build a small group of developers, find someone smarter than me to work with.
I don't think selling apps on the app store is a viable source on income for small developers right now. Yes, we hear a lot of success cases, but the number of failures are enormous.
I created! I'm just giving up selling it.
And the paperwork around income statements, balance sheets, depreciation, and taxes is horrible. Business licenses, legal documents, blah blah blah.
Like I said, it's best that you quit before you even get to the really frustrating stuff.
With the new skills I was able to land a great job as a web developer and am always working on side projects. Even if Apple have screwed you over, don't get disheartened ... they can't screw you out of the skills you've learnt; they're invaluable. Keep that in mind when you're feeling down.
I'm probably just a snob.
But, make no mistake, this is probably a profitable project. In fact, I was planning on making a living out it! I promise I'm not just dumping this
I misspell a lot, sorry, english is not my first language (not even second, actually). Normally I use a spell checker, somehow that passed.
Yep, the e-mail didn't end very well. My point was to try to convey rage to the reader (crazy guy punching computer). Just like people yelling at airline employees when something happens to their flights.
http://blog.metamorphium.com/2012/12/03/apple-duns/
http://dominikbalogh.com/post/20605187847/how-to-quickly-obt...
Though, individual accounts don't require one - why did you need an enterprise account for a standard app (no enterprise installs)?
Methods above won't work on Brazil, you need to actually call them to request the number. (They send you a .xls to fill out).
The second link (.de) seems to offer registration for Brazil, though I haven't done that myself.
Though the average is usually 2 weeks.
For those interested, here's a shameless plug: http://subvertapps.com/HN - it's a HN reader with, what I think, is the best UI on the App Store for it.
Edit: I should say it's about to come out. Once Apple accepts it. This is more of a sneak-peek.
;)
I made it for me, then decided to hell with it, I'll submit it so others can read stories/comments too.
http://www.zachbruhnke.com/how-to-get-a-duns-number-for-free...
its currently somewhere on the New page, upvote it if its useful
https://developer.apple.com/ios/enroll/dunsLookupForm.action
The roadblocks you faced are just silly...but at least you got something out of it (learning Objective-C, the respect of other hackers)...I always try to have a Plan B for any mini-project I work on.... Plan A is that people like and use it. Plan B is I learned a technology/library that I hadn't used before. (sometimes I switch the priority of those two things around).
Hopefully your continued tinkering and exploring gets you a more satisfying job.
http://www.stefankendall.com/2013/01/duns-secret-startup-cos...
The press department has been contacting me, but I refuse their calls. DUNS needs to DIE.
It was more about curiosity, really.
And yet tons of other developers and companies seem to do just fine in the App Store, without juvenile crap like this.
A rant like this coming from people that have been seriously screw by Apple, I would understand. But you don't even have the app made yet by your own admission.
You have a half-finished app, that "you learned Objective-C while building it".
And somehow it's the DUNS that slows down your path to world domination and profit?
Why do you need a DUNS in the first place? An individual doesn't need one, and a company knows better than to blame another company for something a THIRD company handles and that even the government makes a requirement to do business with you.
Being an app developer is frustrating even on Android. Getting publicity for your app is difficult. Margins are thinner than you think because prices are low and your time isn't free.
My feeling is that the market is currently oversupplied with app developers and it needs to cool down. More posts like this would be good to counter the gold rush mentality of the past few years. There just isn't that much money in apps, unless you own the App store.
I also don't see learning Objective C as being that useful, unless you want to continue being an iOS developer... which it seems that you don't. Remember, your main career goal as a developer is not to paint yourself into a corner.
Him being the sole owner of the property can simply release the code under the GPL and use Apple's license for the Store's binaries.
There are no GPL'ed apps. There is GPL'ed code. Owners of the code can decide to do multiple licenses depending on what they want to do with it.
If I make an app I can make it GPL and then keep on developing it myself and after a ton of changes release a proprietary app and then another ton of changes and that third version of the code make it GPL as well and at the same time put the binary up on a place like the App Store and at the same time put the code somewhere else with a BSD license and then again somewhere else post it as public domain.
It'd be a silly thing to do, but as the owner of the property its your prerogative what you do with it.
This silliness about the GPL and the Store needs to stop. It's misinformation all-round. A different thing is that you can't take someone's GPL code and build an App Store app with it (unless you get permission and a special license from all owners of the copyright).
As for Objective-C it works for other platforms and if he actually prefers just Cocoa he still has OS X as a potential platform (plus whatever Apple decides to incorporate in the future, if they ever expand). Your main career goal as a developer should be making a living developing and, ideally, make boatloads of cash. Painting yourself into a corner may, if anything, be bad strategy; but only if it hinders that objective.
Posts like these are not good because they're misinformed and spread misinformation. They transfer blame so they do nothing to assuage the actual problems:
1.-People who plan on making a living developing should have a backup plan. It may not be as easy as they think.
2.-People who plan on making a living developing and are smart about having a backup plan should first "test the waters" before they go full-blown corporate. Develop and release some apps as an individual. See how they behave. Especially if they're your first apps after learning the language and the platform.
3.-Setting up companies is hard and tests everyone's patience. This needs to be ACCEPTED. No matter what your rush, the bureaucracy walks at its own glacial pace. Better understand it early. Also: Frustration shouldn't equal anger.
4.-Document yourself. DUNS is an industry-standard. It's a horrible one and they are scammy and artifically bureaucratic (so they can sell you the shortcuts) but the requirement it's been there for a while and there's plenty of information on how to make it less painful.
5.-Learn where to put blame and focus your frustration. Ask around and find shortcuts and workarounds. DUNS is not Apple and while Apple's requirement of DUNS is frustrating it has its reasons. If selling in the store makes sense to you financially then wait out the free registration from DUNS or decide to pay to get it faster.
If patience is not your virtue you might not be shaped to be an entrepeneur anyway, so Eduardodm should thank DUNS from helping him get out early, as this is nothing compared to what was yet to come.
"Learn where to put blame"-- yeah, put it on the people who caused the problem: Apple and DUNS. Anything else is just blaming the victim. If Microsoft pulled this kind of shit, there would be a shitstorm to end all shitstorms. As it is, we have a bunch of fanboys telling you to blame yourself. Good luck with that, buddy.