Comment by gbaygon | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gbaygon | Hacker News Reader

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I somehow share your point of view.

I've readed McKenna, Robert Anton Wilson, Antero Alli, etc. Even studied Zen and vaious kind of meditation. And know what you mean.

But keep in mind that all that knowledge is somewhat buried, there are no modern "shamans" readily available, and if they exist, how would we differentiate them from charlatans?.

A person with this kind of "disorders" has a wrong map for reality, and i don't know if it's possible to self cure.

On the other hand all this kind of theories are not so mainstream and you will get massively downvoted for expressing your point of view on the matter.

On my very humble opinion, this so called disorders are problems with symbols assosiations, combined with very sensitive human beings. And where modern science tries to get the individual to adapt to the environment, older techniques tried to build a new map for reality, using the unique talents that every person has, and reordering the symbols on the mind.

Some similarities to this kind of work can be found in NLP (Bandler) and the work of Alejandro Jodorowsky.

Maybe shamanism is not the preferred theme in this forum, bu come on guys, shamans where the first hackers!

- Sorry if there are errors, i'm in a hurry and english is not my first language.

i don't see the big difference with what psychiatrist and psychologists actually do. i have been diagnosed with bipolar I after an intense manic and psychotic break, and the subject of my delusions was actually much of the mckenna RAW zen mysticism combo. it was quite instructive in a sense, and terrifying in another.

i was very relieved to find a competent psychiatrist, who prescribed me medication and immediately referred me to a "psychoeducation" group, which is basically a class (not therapy) about handling the illness. we were taught how both medication and behavioral techniques go hand in hand. that sounds very similar to the "body and soul" approach you can read about in RAW etc..., without the crazy. I can assure you that if you wrestle with delusions, the last you want is more crazy concepts designed to fuck with your mind. After that psychoeducation, I went to a psychologists and regularly do some CBT, which is mostly being told as an adult that you should tidy your room and go play outside a bit, and how to keep a balanced life.

now all these concepts and medications may lose their "magic" touch, but it is pretty much the same thing isn't it? it just sounds less funky to call someone a competent psychiatrist than calling him a shaman in touch with the chemicals of nature, or a competent psychologist a priest who can read your soul and keep you grounded in the natural world.

one thing i learnt too is that meditation is something that actually triggers mania and ultimately psychosis in me. this may sound stupid, but if you have mental issues and especially issues with psychosis or dissociation, don't start to experiment with substances and mental techniques on yourself without making sure you having someone watching out for you. and it's definitely easier to pay someone to do that than put that kind of burden on your family and friends.

I don't have experience in the psychiatric field, and you have an interesting and positive experience in that matter, and i congratulate you for that.

I'm against most of the new age mystic mumbo jumbo, but, my sensation about the subject is that the main difference is that modern mental science tries the symptoms, where primitive healers worked with the root causes (raw symbols) with the help of rituals, to give you an example of a mentioned author, Jodorowsky sais that "the brain accepts methapors as reality", accepting this premise you can elaborate, for example, a teatrical scene (or a ritual) where you face your problem, fight it, and solve it.

What we are missing is people that know how to orchestrate this sessions, because, as you said is very dangerous to someone with mental issues to experiment with this kind of things.

Off-topic: way cool to see the name Antero Alli mentioned on HN! Which of his books have you read? I am currently reading Angel Tech and The Eight-Circuit Brain.

I've read Angel Tech, one of my favourite books on the subject , on par with Prometheus Rising.

What results did you get from it? I am currently reading the "Mechanical Problems" section.

I'll contact you by mail to talk about it.

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