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Comment by themgt | Hacker News Reader

If you go out and meet gen x/y Finnish people they are in general shockingly more educated, intelligent, and well-informed about reality and events in the world around them than are Americans in the same age group. Most also know at least 2-3 languages and have traveled and met people of many different cultures/languages. They are in general also significantly more physically and mentally healthy.

America really is not doing well as a society at the moment.

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I have found that young adults who are in an environment similar to those of the "Gen x/y Finnish" have similar traits. However, the United States does not have the luxury of having nearly the entire country living an environment like that (compared to the relativity small and highly metropolitan European countries).

To draw a comparison in the way you have is disingenuous.

That's like saying the elites in [insert third world country] who go to western-style universities are quite similar to their western counterparts, and therefore it's disingenuous to talk about the conditions most in that country live in.

I'm just as suspicious of Scandinavian comparisons as the next American, but this is not a valid objection. We are specifically comparing the privileges and services that each society provides to its citizens, for the citizens' well-being and that of the society as a whole. To say, "we don't have that luxury" (of what? a "metropolitan" environment? our urban kids do worse than our rural kids!) is to admit in damning fashion that our privileges and services aren't as good as those the Finnish receive. I could understand this sort of whining from Bangladesh or the Congo, but coming from the USA it's pathetic.

It's a lot easier for 17 million people to live in (relative) privilege than it is for 300+ million. Scale matters when dealing with tangible requirements.

I'm not sure what "scale" is supposed to indicate in this context; if you rank nations by population density then Singapore is at one end and Finland is at the other, and they both have better results than the USA. In 2011 Finnish per capita GDP was less than 80% of ours. I don't doubt they'll pass us eventually (Singapore already has), and our woeful system of elementary and secondary education is a principal reason why.

You can say the same thing about many segments of the American population of the same size and demographic homogeneity as Finland...

Unfortunately, one actually cannot say there is a contiguous & homogeneous Finland sized segment of Americans that know 2-3 languages, travel extensively and are well educated and informed about reality.

There are no demographically homogeneous parts of America, perhaps the ghetto may qualify, but thats not your point.

Even in the most elite school, you would be hard pressed to find somebody who can speak 3 languages. This is for the predictable reason that the state of Indiana is not bordered by 3 distinct linguistic regions.

The differences between American and Finnish schools have been summarized here : http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands... . All American students are subject to the crippling exams and tests mentioned many times over. It is my opinion that the elite groups are ones where their families can make up for what is not taught in school: which often means connections to a culture outside of the US. For example, Finnish. The only hope for American children is to stop being American.

> have traveled and met people of many different cultures/languages. Traveling to different countries is much easier to do in Europe than the US. There you can take the train for a weekend trip, here you need to save up thousands of dollars and take your kids out of school for at least a week (if not done during the summer).

Also, I think that Americans interact with more cultures and languages daily because it is a land of immigration. From a young age I learned how my nationality's ethnic dance, traditions, and customs. I have also learned about my friend's traditions from India, Germany, England, South Korea, etc... all without leaving my city.

However, I do concede that there should be a stronger push for becoming fluent in foreign languages at a younger age. Unfortunately there is a prevalent attitude in society that it isn't "American" to do so.

> * Americans interact with more cultures and languages daily because it is a land of immigration*

Only in a few places. You'd be amazed at how many people even in a big, multicultural city can't understand my husband speaking at all due to his (extremely light, perfectly grammatically correct) Austrian accent.

Or how many (vast majority) of Americans assume all Latinos are "Mexicans" -- not Americans of long descent (thanks to our whole, you know, manifest destiny), not Ecuadorans, etc., but Mexican. I used to live in southern MD which had a huge immigrant population and despite the "Viva Ecuador" bumper stickers everywhere, everybody thought they were "Mexicans." Like, the flag is right there. But nope.

Anecdotally I've heard people from New Mexico complain that people look at their license plate and assume they are not American.

We are talking about a country where large minorities to majorities do not know whether the Sun goes around the Earth or vice versa, that there has been no significant scientific debate about evolution in a century, or that the evidence for human-caused global warming is overwhelming. A country where many colleges find that the performance of their football team has a bigger impact on their financial bottom line than the quality of their academics.

Outside of various bubbles, this is not a country that actually values knowledge very much. Every attempt to change that is swimming upstream against a strong current.

When I lived in NYC my roommate (from Colorado, college grad) did not understand what the difference was between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans.

All know at least 3, because two are compulsory and that does not include English.

Finland has a small problem of degree inflation. Masters degree is highly preferred. Vast majority in traditional research university students are likely to skip over the bachelors. Because of this average graduation age is dangerously close to 30.

Finnish perspective: The only quality you truly need to worry about is the quality of your teacher education.

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