NYC: The Tax Capital of the World | Hacker News Reader

NYC: The Tax Capital of the World

online.wsj.com

10 pointsgibsonf117 comments

This article is quite poor.

Firstly, "Instead, the state politicians are pocketing the federal cash to maintain spending, and raising taxes anyway." is quite a stretch. Using his own numbers: "[New York's] $132 billion budget is now $17.7 billion in deficit."

The best number I can find for the NY's share of the stimulus is about $3 Billion[1]. Arithmetic left to the reader.

Secondly, I can't substantiate the population loss figure he cites, the Census[2] cites a 2.7% increase in population from 2000 - 2008. I can only guess that having 1.9 million people leave but having 2.4 million arrive constitutes an "exodus" by the Wall Street Journal.

[1]http://www.nysut.org/cps/rde/xchg/nysut/hs.xsl/bulletins_126... [2]http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-pop-chg.html

I've noticed that the laws of supply and demand seem to apply to tax rates as well. NY and CA, for example, are booming business hubs and have very high taxes. Presumably, the government thinks that there is high demand for living and working in such a place and so jacks up the amount it charges for people to be there. On the other side of the coin, tax havens seem to be located in smaller, unpopular regions. A sense of economic equilibrium might suggest that businesses will eventually flow from the pricey regions to the cheaper ones.

Very good friends of mine are planning their move out of NYC right now. So the exodus has already begun. The irony is that the net effect of the higher taxes will be less revenue as more people leave and are discouraged from making money. Somehow, basic economic lessons are never learned from the past, especially by governments.

Well, that's anecdotal. I'll offset yours with mine. My girlfriend and I are packing up and moving out of Delaware (tax rate, 0%) into NYC (tax rate, astronomical).

There is more life than simply how much money is in your bank account, and living in NYC is an amazing experience.

Delaware has a significant state income tax. Maybe you're fleeing the state for non-payment?

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/edit/state/profiles/state_t...

It's looking like "amazing" won't be the right word in a little while.

To a degree, I'm with you. Since I was a teenager, it's been my dream to live in New York, but hearing things like this makes me doubt seriously that NYC can maintain its bustling stature.

I know it seems like that on the outside, but taxes, rent, food are not all of it. As an employee, you get paid more to compensate you for that. If money is really an issue, live in NJ, CT, or LI and commute in.

My car is $300 a month + insurance + gas, eliminating all that and replacing it with $80 a month unlimited metro card saves me more than the change in cost of living.

As for starting a business, there are three reasons why NYC is the place. VCs, enterprise, and employees. Our startup was 2 floors below the VC in the space previously occupied by del.icio.us. If we were in delaware, sure we wouldn't have taxes but we wouldn't have as much access to the VC.

If you are selling to businesses, where will you be more efficient, the place where you can be at any company headquarters in 10 minutes, or in Delaware with a 3 hour+ car ride to get there (minor caveat with the banks in Wilmington but aside that).

And if you want employees, NYC is a magnet for great talent and they are easy to find.

Its not for everyone, but I highly object to people saying there is an exodus. I am more inclined now after the economic downturn to move into NYC than before. Rents are falling, engineering jobs are still paying well, the wall streeters have less bluster - it sounds great.

There is shockingly little data for this supposed tax-motivated exodus from NYC. Note this oped conflates NY state and NY city in several places.

The vast majority of New York State is not New York City. People are leaving Upstate and Western New York because Kodak closed up shop and the steel mill jobs are long since gone. This has nothing to do with either NYC or taxes.

New York State grew by nearly a half-million people from 2000-2008.

As a once New Yorker, I can attest that there are so many other reasons to move out of New York that I would be surprised if taxes were really anyone's primary motivator for leaving.

Taxes are actually pretty low, especially for the very wealthy.

See e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/31/business/31leonhardt.html?...

So what would be the total income tax of someone living in NYC earning (say) $100k, after all the federal and state taxes / levies / whatever apply? The system is so complex I can't make head or tail of it. I thought federal taxes were already pretty high!

Man, the yanks go on about Evil Socialism so much that I always expect taxes there to be like 20 or 30%. Then I go look it up and find it's mid 40s like everyone else!

Historically speaking tax rates are actually very low right now

Indeed. I went and looked up the rates and it seems the maximum anyone would pay is hovering around 30%.

OK, that's pretty low.

Swedish tax rates on someone earning 100k USD would be hovering around 60%, and then there is between 12% and 25% sales tax on most things you buy. I'm surprised that I don't feel more ripped off than I do.

I think it's a question of value for money. You pay more, but you get more, too. The question is, do you get proportinately more than you pay? I think yes, but reasonable opinions can obviously differ.

I felt pretty frickin' ripped off last time I bought a beer in Stockholm, though. Just sayin'. : )

This is why Swedes have "förfest".

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