Hacker News Reader

A lot of those options rely on circumstances not entirely within your control. You can't force anyone to give you a job, you can't force your employer to give you time / resources to work on your idea and you can't force anyone to give you funding. If you do happen to achieve any of the above (except for funding,) then you can't be sure that you will have enough influence for the idea to remain your own. There is a lot of potential for wasted time and headaches here.

Why not bootstrap? SV is insanely expensive and your progress will be slow working on this thing during your down time. Can you do freelance work? If so, one crazy idea would be to banish yourself for six months or so to a super cheap area of the world, do freelancing part time and then spend the rest of the time furthering your app. There are lots of places in the world where you can live for as low as $600 / month, internet included! If you can do some freelance work for even $50 / hour then you could truly be living a 4 hour work week! At the same time, you get to experience another part of the world. Perhaps you could even pick up some cheap developers there to help you out with certain parts of it.

Do you have any users yet? Would it be possible to build out a community before you even get the app to a point where it's usable? You may get more interest in funding if you could demonstrate some traction. I'm pretty sure investors are more interested in their ROI as opposed to throwing money at cool ideas. Would this be a wise investment? ;) If not, then that's probably the component you need to be working on.

Thank you very much! To your first paragraph, YES!!! :) There is a tremendous amount that is out of my control, which is not my favorite situation to be in, but sometimes it's the only way. I believe my idea is very big, and for reasons stated, I am concerned I need to go big out of the gate. I may be underestimating my capabilities, but I'm not confident two people (my partner and I) can pull that off. And anyway, eventually I will want to work with others, so it's either find good people now or find them later.

I ironically have recently, in a roundabout way, already done the live someplace cheap thing (very complicated to explain, though amusing, but I'll save that for another time). It didn't go well. Suffice it to say, I have a wife and son, and have found out my wife does not adapt to big changes well, so I don't want to move around frivolously.

I had bootstrapped using savings, and again it's complicated, but I am running out of runway. I'll need to feel really good about my plan to spend much longer without a job, funding, or mentorship. Maybe I could start small and grow, but I'm just not sure how long it would be take to grow revenues to cover my living expenses. SoCal is decided not a cheap place to live. :) Doing some freelance work is definitely a potential option and would buy me some time. I had considered that, but for some reason it fell off my radar, so thanks for the reminder.

My only user now is myself, though I have shown a few others. Perhaps I should get a MVP out and see what kind of traction it gets? I may be overly concerned about someone copying my idea and scaling it up faster, but only because I don't have a strong argument to counter the concern. Can you explain why I should not be afraid of that?

I guess that's the thing. I'd like to at least be able to know and choose the entities I am deciding to trust. By putting it out there for anyone to see, what stops someone from just ripping it off?

Is this a wise investment? I believe it is, for the right investor who can afford the risk, but I understand the onus is on me to convince would be investors. It's certainly costing me quite a bit to work on it, but then again my motivation is more humanitarian than financial. I was hoping to at least get an interview with YC and get some feedback from some people with major experience under their belt, either "yeah that could fly" and then we'd get to it, or "never going to work because of X and Y". But, I didn't get an interview, so I got approximately zero feedback. I'd prefer to have a tech-savvy investor/partner who would really be able to see potentially fatal flaws, than a non-savvy investor who might invest without realizing those flaws.

Build a basic version and see what traction / feedback you get. Don't be afraid of people ripping it off, it doesn't happen. Everybody capable of ripping off your idea will have plenty of their own, that they'd rather pursue. The people I know, who talk about their great ideas but are vague with details (because it's so groundbreaking that everybody would steal the idea if they could), are the same folks who never actually get anything done. Don't be that guy. Get it out there, discuss it with as many people you can and get valuable feedback. By holding back of fear of your idea getting stolen you are not accomplishing anything.

Thanks, a very rousing pep talk. I am sure what you are saying is true that most people worried about having their idea stolen end up doing nothing. I am trying to figure out how to not be that guy. But I am also trying to figure out the smartest way to do it.

Maybe the answer is, whatever way gets my feet moving? It's interesting that no one has had an opinion on how to go about doing it, just that I should stop worrying and just do it.

Which is exactly what I would expect someone to say who wants to steal my precious idea... ;)

Cheap country is a no go, got it.

Freelancing is a great option for bootstrapping in cases where you can live cheap. It gets more difficult as your situation gets more expensive. Most obviously, the higher your expenses, the more you have to work (while also raising your rates) and this cuts down on your "start-up" time. With freelancing, your clients have to be your first business priority. You can't give them a lower priority than your start-up. Work / life separation goes away and it can be difficult to fit start-ups in there. If a start-up can be hell, consider that your freelancing would be yet another start-up. Again, it's a great option when you can tame it (which is easy to do when you can live on next to nothing) but it can get really hairy as you need to scale up your earnings. It might still be worth a shot though, you don't know until you try. Who knows, it might blow up and go much better than you expect.

Argument for sharing your ideas.

Look at the logistical problems that you are running into.You need a lot of talented labor and you need a lot of money. You have no idea if you are going to be able to make money and you haven't yet been able to convince anyone to invest in it. Investors don't even care about the idea so much as they want to make a lot of money. In many cases they are investing not in the right ideas, but the right people.

Who is going to make the insane sacrifice with the same passion and the same vision as you? If the idea were easy to steal, then it probably would have been easy enough that you would have built it already.

I think people generally get these things backwards anyways. The best time for someone to steal your idea is when you have already built up some traction. At that point, you have done all the hard work so the copy cats can see that your idea is worth stealing. They can also watch your mistakes and possibly roll out a better service. You might as well tell everyone about it now.

There is also the possibility that your successful idea may look entirely different than what you are thinking about right now. As soon as you get real users, it starts evolving. It's better to get that process going as soon as possible.

Otherwise, I don't have much more info for you. Good luck!

>>>I have an idea for a social media app that will help people explore truth together more effectively

I don't even know what that means to begin with.

Fair criticism, I was too vague. I'd love to just describe the details as is my typical MO, but I am not convinced yet that is wise.

It means sharing ideas and opinions in the most efficient and effective way possible. So, sharing your opinions, seeing others opinions, and interacting in a way which hopefully will be constructive to everyone as they determine their own version of what they think and believe. My goal is to optimize this process so there is less wasted time and cognitive energy fighting ignorance and intentional misinformation, with the result being a more well-informed public, and all of the secondary effects that brings. We have already seen this effect in action (arab spring and twitter, for example), and I want to do whatever I can to promote it further.

There are a few fundamental tweaks I would make to current methods, which will allow me to provide an interface with distinct advantages which I believe far outweigh the capability given up.

Hopefully that is at least slightly more clear.

Who are you? Around here, ideas aren't very important. Everybody has ideas. They're easy to come by, and they're usually not as huge as you might assume. The most important aspect of a startup is a founder that can get things done.

Do you know how to build it? Then build it. Else, find a cofounder that knows how.

Fair question. I had 2000 characters, so I had to cut some stuff out. I will answer each question separately, so we can keep some order.

Who am I?

- Software developer with systems and automated test experience as well - 12 years experience in C++, Java, Perl, and Web. Been using Groovy/Grails/JQuery, open to Angular and/or whatever languages and technologies perform and scale best while providing an intuitive development experience. - Very intelligent and competent, always a top performer (graduated salutatorian at 16, 780 Math SAT I think, Genius IQ - not trying or expecting to impress, just trying to say I'm not dumb) - Unfortunately I worked in defense industry, and had much of my time wasted with BS and having to reverse engineer and then re-engineer broken systems. So while I consider myself capable, I'm likely not at the level I would have been had I gone straight to SV. I assume there is a stigma attached to working in defense, if so please feel free to share. - No great contacts in SV, so starting from scratch to build a reputation, a network of capable and trustworthy associates, and a knowledge of how things work. I do not underestimate the challenges this presents. But perhaps I may be overestimating them?

RE: ideas aren't very important

I wholeheartedly agree, to the extent the idea is vague and general. To the extent the idea becomes more detailed, I think the importance grows. A software program is nothing more than a bunch of ideas written down to the degree that a computer can understand the meaning. So, the importance of the idea can range from "nothing" to "everything". I know a lot of people seem to subscribe to the ideas are nothing mantra, so I'm wondering if it is shorthand for "vague ideas are worth nothing", or applies to the entire spectrum?

How detailed is my idea? Enough that I think it is significant. Enough that I think it creates substantial advantages over current alternatives, and even up-and-coming OSS which has similar aims. Could I be wrong? Of course, but in the past I have had very accurate gauge on this. The core idea I am very confident in, as long as I can present the user a very clean and easy interface. The major risk I have identified is that I could be underestimating the difficulty of implementing the software which performs some key tasks which are required to support that goal maximally. I have some ideas of how I will do this, more than vague but less than pseudo code. I will no doubt encounter challenges, but my feeling is that I could probably at least minimally satisfy my goal initially, and move towards a perfect solution later.

Find a company doing something similar and try to get a job there (Obvious Corp may be doing something similar, but I can't even find contact info, much less get hired. But they seem like great people.)

C'mon, man - you can do better than that:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Obvious+Corp

Second result:

http://www.crunchbase.com/company/obvious

Twitter @ObviousCorp Phone 415-285-4255 164 South Park Street San Francisco, CA, 94107

Whois reveals yet more.

Thanks, but you didn't try calling that number, did you? It is disconnected.

A quick whois search turns up yet more:

415-513-5196 domain.admin@obvious.com 2601 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA, 94401

Thanks! Seems like an unconventional and creative route. I've used whois of course, but never to get contact info for a well-known company, so I didn't even think about it. I will give it a (admittedly long) shot.

Oh and for the record, yes I had already tried the number on crunch base. I've also sent a twitter message, but no response yet.

I guess my point was this: it shows a lack of motivation and drive saying that you can't find out how to contact a company you are genuinely interested in. The Google and whois queries took less than 30 seconds to come up with and perform. A motivated person should be able to do much better in 10 or 15 minutes. May you find what you are looking for!

Thanks, I appreciate the well wishes and practical help in getting there.

I certainly understand your reasoning, even if my conclusion is different. I try to be careful not to judge anything based on one small aspect without considering the whole, or jump to conclusions on a decidedly complex issue (any human action, really, including my own). You may of course do as you wish.

I did the google query a couple days ago, called the number twice to verify the disconnected message wasn't the result of a weird network error, then did several more queries and surfing around their various web sites (obvious.com, which now redirects to medium.com, jellyhq.com (where I promptly subscribed to the early adopter list), media stories, and social media accounts, to no avail. I spent much more than 15 minutes on it, and hopefully my post here displays at least a modicum of motivation and drive. I made the remark because I thought it was odd, not as a request for someone else to do my homework for me, but I appreciate your initiative.

I think what you read as lack of motivation, I believe is infrequent use of whois (due to its irrelevance for the vast majority of my work on classified networks) and especially in this capacity, leading to oversight of that tool as potentially useful for solving my problem. I overlooked the whois suggestion in your first post, because I was in the middle of composing a response to someone else, and probably because my attention went straight to the phone number I recognized. I am sorry my oversight inconvenienced you, but I do appreciate you lending your expertise to help (however trivial it was to you).

I think it would be accurate to see this as a weakness of lesser familiarity with certain things due to having spent large amounts of time in a different environment. That would be fair. I just think those type of things are generally easy to pick up, compared to the things that are difficult to learn, or just can't be taught period. Not unimportant or trivial, but a minor challenge. And those concepts that are difficult or critical to get right the first time, are the reason why I applied to YC, and why I am asking HNers for advice. And I will make every effort to eventually give back more than I receive.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You are clearly well-spoken and patient, two excellent traits in any profession. Godspeed!

Number called, no answer, anonymous voicemail recording. Message left, fingers crossed... star wished upon. Ironic that I may need to resort to snail mail.

Number called, no answer, anonymous voicemail recording. Message left, fingers crossed... star wished upon.

I'm sorry, you're still missing the point. You can and should do FAR more than this if you are truly motivated. I strongly recommend you read Think and Grow Rich:

http://archive.org/details/Think_and_Grow_Rich

Here's a taste:

TRULY, "thoughts are things," and powerful things at that, when they are mixed with definiteness of purpose, persistence, and a BURNING DESIRE for their translation into riches, or other material objects.

A little more than thirty years ago, Edwin C. Barnes discovered how true it is that men really do THINK AND GROW RICH. His discovery did not come about at one sitting. It came little by little, beginning with a BURNING DESIRE to become a business associate of the great Edison.

One of the chief characteristics of Barnes' Desire was that it was definite. He wanted to work with Edison, not for him. Observe, carefully, the description of how he went about translating his DESIRE into reality, and you will have a better understanding of the thirteen principles which lead to riches. When this DESIRE, or impulse of thought, first flashed into his mind he was in no position to act upon it. Two difficulties stood in his way. He did not know Mr. Edison, and he did not have enough money to pay his railroad fare to Orange, New Jersey. These difficulties were sufficient to have discouraged the majority of men from making any attempt to carry out the desire.

But his was no ordinary desire! He was so determined to find a way to carry out his desire that he finally decided to travel by "blind baggage," rather than be defeated. (To the uninitiated, this means that he went to East Orange on a freight train). He presented himself at Mr. Edison's laboratory, and announced he had come to go into business with the inventor. In speaking of the first meeting between Barnes and Edison, years later, Mr. Edison said, "He stood there before me, looking like an ordinary tramp, but there was something in the expression of his face which conveyed the impression that he was determined to get what he had come after. I had learned, from years of experience with men, that when a man really DESIRES a thing so deeply that he is willing to stake his entire future on a single turn of the wheel in order to get it, he is sure to win. I gave him the opportunity he asked for, because I saw he had made up his mind to stand by until he succeeded. Subsequent events proved that no mistake was made."

Thank you miles, but again I think you are the one missing something, because you are too quick to assume. I appreciated your help, but you were clearly too quick to declare your own success and my lack of motivation or effort. You provided two phone numbers, one of which I had already tried, and both of which were dead ends. That was the only issue you expressed interest in talking to me about, so that is the only thing I mentioned in my reply, so I didn't waste your time or mine.

I am traveling up to Napa very soon, and was considering trying to drop by their office, but politely and without presumption. However, it is not my dream to work with Ev and Biz. I just have the impression they share my goals and values, so would potentially be great people to partner with. I will continue to be on the lookout for opportunities to connect with them, but it's not my only option.

What I AM doing is moving forward on the MVP of my product, with my partner who has committed to a substantial amount of effort to building the business. I am feeling great about our prospects, as he has brought more to the team than I had even hoped for. He is very confident we can handle the big data (as he has already done major projects using Cassandra). And since he is willing to contribute more than I expected, and we work together even better than I hoped, things are looking up.

I have endured far more for far longer in pursuit of this goal than Barnes' blind baggage ride. In the last year alone I have endured several trials that would have broken many men (no exaggeration). I (and my family) have come out the other side stronger than ever, and I am determined to do everything in my power to pursue this goal. This year, next year, 10 years, this is what I will be doing, because I would do it even if I didn't need any money. And in fact I didn't need the money, but as a result of pursuing this instead of playing it safe, that is increasingly in jeopardy.

Well, since you seem to be an advocate of tracking down complete strangers and demanding they give you what you want, I would be remiss if I didn't inquire as to what I may demand of you, where I may find you, and if you could make the trip from LA worth my while? ;)

EDIT: So, Maui it is! I appreciate you living somewhere nice to visit, and even on one of the HI islands I've yet to visit. Now I just need to figure out my demands. That is, in addition to some delicious vegan fare, and some Japanese lessons for my Japanese wife, who knows less Japanese than I do. :)

Well, since you seem to be an advocate of tracking down complete strangers and demanding they give you what you want, I would be remiss if I didn't inquire as to what I may demand of you, where I may find you, and if you could make the trip from LA worth my while? ;) EDIT: So, Maui it is! I appreciate you living somewhere nice to visit, and even on one of the HI islands I've yet to visit. Now I just need to figure out my demands. That is, in addition to some delicious vegan fare, and some Japanese lessons for my Japanese wife, who knows less Japanese than I do. :)

No, you have misunderstood: I am an advocate of following through with action on your dreams. If your dream is to harass me, I suggest you dig deep and find a more worthy goal. Best of luck.

Sorry miles, just a bit of friendly ribbing. Hence the winky face, but I guess that wasn't clear.

How hard is it to implement your idea? I don't know the details of your situation, but if you can build it yourself, and you are confident in its ability to succeed, you can move somewhere with a cheap cost of living and just do it all yourself. It only costs like 15k to live frugally for a year in some parts of the country.

Thanks for the feedback. I've got a family, so it's less cheap. Plus, health insurance and health expenses alone cost me more than 15k.

I could build part of it myself, and am already on my way. I probably could do a MVP which could possibly get traction. But for reasons stated already, I'm not sure starting small is the best option. But I would certainly appreciate it if someone could ease my mind about that.

Also, please see my other responses related to your questions, so I don't pollute the comments with repetition. Thanks!

Ask HN: What's my next move?