Job hunting experience (and few advices)
lists.lrug.org
lists.lrug.org
I can only attribute this behavior to cowardice. I guess they (HR) are just to afraid to be upfront. I apply to one company at a time so they have my full attention. Finding out I waited around for nothing makes me rage. It's so incredibly rude to treat people like that.
I want to start a list of companies that do this. Make them accountable, or at least keep people from wasting time.
In fact, here they are: SpaceX (4 hour code interview, then nothing), LogicMonitor
I don't know if it's clear upfront or not; I never was looking to interview there. But "a sense of mission and urgency" is no excuse for what can only be considered labor abuse.
I'm positive that with a more cosy, relaxed way grasshopper wouldn't safely land and no Dragon would dock at the ISS. In this case SpaceX wouldn't exist any longer.
I think you'd need to provide more explanation of why you think the Grasshopper wouldn't land if SpaceX's employees were permitted to get a full night's sleep. Why is SpaceX different than NASA? As far as I know, no one ever worked those kinds of hours at NASA, and certainly not for years on end--maybe for the week before a space launch. I know if I were an astronaut, I'd much rather the people at mission control were well-rested and alert rather frenzied and terrified of management, falling asleep at the controls.
However, you're absolutely right that having someone come on-site for interviews and a coding test and then ignoring them is unacceptable. I assume you've tried all the obvious steps for correcting it, like following up with the recruiter multiple times and reaching out to contacts at the company. Sometimes companies take their sweet time processing interview feedback, but a recruiter should definitely tell you that - and taking more than a couple weeks is probably always wrong. In cases where recruiters and low level people dropped the ball on recruiting, I have sometimes had good results from reaching out to people who cared - regardless of the results of the interview, most people don't want their company to get a reputation for mistreating candidates.
On the other hand, I don't know if I recommend burning your bridges.
My own anecdote; I'm already employed but am ready for a change and have been casually looking around to see if there is something interesting out there. At least twice I've done coding quizzes associated with a job posting and then been contacted to setup an phone interview time. Each time they setup a time and then don't actually keep the appointment. In one case they actually contacted me again several weeks later as if it was the first time they had emailed me. In both cases I believe the companies were small enough that the hiring was being handled by the "CEO" and there was no dedicated HR department. No way I would work for a company that does junk like that. Even if you do need to cancel an interview it's easy enough to send a 5 word email, "Sorry, I need to cancel"
I can get past people not calling me back to say "no" but i find this kind of behavior quite despicable, surely taking 30 seconds to call someone must not be such a hassle (after all, you've already spent at least an hour interviewing them).
TLDR : get used to it, and just ignore them like they ignore you and don't apply there again
Lose this attitude, fast. Do you want to convince recruitment agents to change their word processor, or do you want to find a job?
People skills, people.
I read it just as a baffling moment. He did resend it after all...
Some automated HR systems can parse out a Word document but can't do anything with a PDF.
Everyone sends the PDF.
I had applied for a data analyst position with a "Big 4" shop, and after an initial phone screen, was asked to come in for an "aptitude test". After probing for details, all I was told was that this test would be around data analysis in my domain (which happened to be retail banking credit risk), with no further details about the format or structure.
Imagine my surprise when I came in, and realised it was a written test! That's right -- I had 40 minutes to write down detailed answers to questions on sheets of paper. One of these questions was a couple of tables and required me to write SQL queries that did a couple of operations on the tables. All with pencil and paper.
I spent about 5 minutes of the allotted time just re-acquainting myself with the 'art' of penmanship, and ended up focusing more on legibility than content (my handwriting is atrocious, barely more than a chicken scrawl).
Needless to say, I didn't get the job. And the kicker was, the HR chap said they would provide feedback on why I was unsuccessful, but never did, despite repeated follow-up attempts.
Bah, humbug.
Assuming that average hourly rate is $50, the developer spends $100 of his time doing the test and thus showing commitment to reach an agreement about the job. The company, on the other hand, spends nothing and thus makes no commitment whatsoever.
The proposition is not atractive in any way unless you are completely desperate.
So, the company is basically selecting for the worst developers.
Is there any point I've missed?
And obviously there will be some costs to the company, the test didn't develop itself, and there is likely a developer reviewing the code after completion.
In this case the developer is in a different city, the test appears to be designed to see if it is worthwhile to bring him in for further interview.
Developing test beforehand requires no commitment ($0) to particular applicant. There's no commitment.
As for reviewing, I've seen A/B/C/D tests out there. These can be evaluated automatically. So once again, no commitment.
Now, the point is than anyone -- if there's an option -- prefers situation where there's at least some commitment from the other side. Thus, the guys with automated tests are going to hire only developers which have no other choice. It looks like they are shooting themselves in the foot.
I specially dislike that, but if you think about it nothing prevents them to copy & paste into a doc document (well, if they ask for an editable format may be they lack the skills to do it, who knows!).
My feeling is that it is just a business for them (as in not "helping me") and they will change anything in my CV (yes, lie; or worse: it will look like I lied) to get me an interview and get their share. The downside of this approach is that I will lose my time with a job interview I can't pass because I'm not a good match.
I know that not all agencies work that way, but some do.
Then again, an ODT is better than a link to a very sparse LinkedIn profile.
Why on earth would you send an recruiter/agency an ODT file? I mean sure, I get that you want to use Open/Libre Office but it is hardly standard for any company so using it seems rather silly. If you are gonna send your CV, make it easy for the recruiters or agencies to read it.
If you're really against proprietary formats, why don't you just create a simple HTML/CSS webpage, supported by all browsers?
40 hour work week is a lie. Its a damn lie and is a lie.
Also, you forgot to mention your living costs and taxes.
Then again, I'd take Norway over Sweden just because Sweden is fucked and Norway is pretty responsible financially and is doing well with it's oil reserves.
I've found in the government jobs, the <= 40hr week is pretty much guaranteed. I agree that the waiting times are a little crazy--I had to wait 3 months to see a specialist after a recommendation from my fastlege.
How so? As a Norwegian software engineer that's not my experience.
Btw, Norway actually has a 37.5 hour work week, the 40 hour quoted is including half an hour of lunch each day.
The 40-hour work week is the norm --- it most definitely is not a lie. Of course, some high-end jobs, e.g., in finance, will naturally require more but usually pays more as well.
I can't comment on living expenses. If you come from the Bay Area, you'll probably find them low in most of Norway. I don't think taxes are particularly high, when comparing your whole economy. E.g., you don't need extra medical insurance, you don't need to save for your children's college tuition, etc. I pay around 30-40% on a decent pay.
But --- yes, it's not all bliss. But given the situation in large parts of Europe, Norway's strong economy and low unemployment, I'd recommend people to take a look.
Best advice I ever got? Read Ask The Headhunter.
It's not all about you. These employers have a problem to be solved - that's why they're hiring. Figure out what their problem is, and how you can solve it for them.
I've been doing this for a few years now and seen companies that ask you to do a +1 hour technical test. I can't imagine what they are looking for, but know it isn't me. Maybe they are just testing the market? Maybe they want to know if they are paying their developers too much? How bad do you want to work for a place like that?
Sometimes you never can tell, just chalk it down to a bad experience and move on...
Its a learning experience. What I did immediately when getting home was write the damn task to completion to prove I could do it. Mainly what interviewers are wanting you to do in that kind of task is vocalise what you're thinking. It's useful to them since you're showing a logical approach to understanding and breaking down the problem. You show that you're a communicator. It's useful to you since you're talking it aloud and generally this allows you to avoid pitfalls before they happen.
I don't think you're going to completely avoid this kind of task in future interviews, so practice with a friend! Don't get too disheartened - this experience is one that a lot of grad coders will have and now reviewing it and improving is a task that will let you kick ass in future.
Loads of Ruby/Rails jobs, an ace startup scene in an exciting city and the friendliest people in the world :)
My experience is relatively limited (about 5.5 dev years) but once you've a good reputation then you'll never have to look for another job - it'll be lined up for you. Until the bubble bursts that is!
I also know a good recruiter (one or two exist!) who does work for the odd startup if you're interested in taking that route. Email me (ger [at] getchoocreations.com) if you're interested.