Comment by marssaxman | Hacker News Reader

Comment by marssaxman | Hacker News Reader

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Oh, come on, having horrible judgement is the whole point of being a kid. The process of growing up and becoming an adult is all about learning and acquiring good judgement. How can you expect people to gain the judgement that comes with experience without allowing them to gain that experience by trying things, some of which will turn out to be mistakes? How are they supposed to know which things are going to be the mistakes without trying some of them and thereby learning the patterns?

I once did more or less the same thing as Ms Wilmot did, and you bet I did it during school, and I didn't even bother to tell anyone about my intentions first! I set up an apparatus under one of the fume hoods in the back of the chemistry lab, dissolved a bunch of aluminum, captured the hydrogen in a balloon, and then blew the whole thing up. It made a hell of a big bang, shattered a bunch of glassware, and startled the hell out of my lab-mates. Bad judgement? Well, yeah. Duh. But I didn't actually hurt anyone, and I sure learned something from the experience, and I'll bet that all my classmates learned something from it too, without having to deal with the embarrassment and clean-up that landed on my shoulders for being the nitwit who tried it.

Just imagine how fucked I'd have been if I'd had to face felony charges after that. My whole life might have been different, my whole software engineering career derailed before it had even started. What a stupid waste that would have been. What a stupid waste it is going to be for all of us if this idiotic treatment of Ms Wilmot is allowed to stand.

Did you read my post? I do not agree with these felony charges at all. I don't know what the reprimand should be, whether it's a lecture or 1 detention or expulsion. But I know the felony charges are wrong based on the few facts we currently have.

I did read your post, and I don't agree that any formal reprimand was necessary. What did she do that deserves punishment? She found chemistry so interesting that she went beyond her classes and came up with her own experiment, which taught her something she hadn't expected. Cool! Give her extra credit, put her in AP classes, sign her up for community college - this is exactly the kind of curiosity and independent initiative we need to encourage, not punish.

I think that was gavinlynch's point: there's got to be some kind of discipline, but a felony is insane. And by discipline, I'd imagine something like what happened to you would be reasonable.

"Ok, someone could have gotten hurt. Be more careful next time, and now clean up your mess!" With the severity of the lecture following the actual damage.

Kids should be encouraged to involve themselves with the immensely powerful forces so easily available today - but they've got to fear it (as in respect it). They need to know how destructive it can be, and then _harness that_. That's my $0.02 on it.

In the abstract, the severity of the lecture should not necessarily follow the actual damage - sometimes it should follow the potential for damage, perhaps? For instance, when I was a kid, I ran out into the road to chase a ball. A car stopped about 1 meter from me. Nobody and nothing was hurt (unless you count terrifying the driver and my mother on the sidewalk watching). Was I in trouble? Hell yes. If my mother had said 'well, nobody was hurt, no problem' then how was I supposed to learn how stupid it was?

Yup, you're right. In industry, that's called a near miss. It's treated with the motions as though you were hit by that car, but none of the consequences are enacted, since nothing in fact happened (YMMV). Basically, it's a freebie: lessons are learned without anyone getting hurt, which is about as good as it gets.

Near misses must be analysed and acted upon to be a useful force in accident or disaster prevention. Such actions can include changes to the facility, changes to protocol, but also educating or punishing workers.

As an example: Misconduct causing a near miss, such as smoking or using open fire near chemical storage, is grounds for instant dismissal, even in the "socialist" countries of NW Europe.

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