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Comment by jellicle | Hacker News Reader

Yep. So, she has pled guilty, been placed on probation, will have to comply with the probation terms, been kicked out of her high school and sent to another school for child-criminals where I'm sure the education will be absolutely stellar, and there's probably about a 50% chance that this criminal record will follow her around for the rest of her life (somehow, it seems that a lot of these supposedly-sealed convictions end up on adult criminal background checks).

Job well done. One scientist eliminated from useful society.

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Her first statement while being interviewed was that she was performing a science experiment. That story changed under interview, and she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it. The outpouring of support from renowned scientists and legal funds happily ignored that point, and stuck with the "science experiment" angle.

So, no, this is not an anti-science campaign by the government, regardless of how really hard we want to believe that she's aspiring to science. These things will blind you and take limbs off if you mishandle them. They have blown up on police officers after being left in an alley because they didn't detonate when kids make them. Then they just leave them for other people to clean up.

Even if you buy the science experiment angle, which she herself went back on, this is a safety issue from the completely reckless way in which she performed a "science experiment", similar to detonating a pipe bomb on school property just to see what happens. Oh, how the narrative would be different if she had built a pipe bomb instead.

Honestly, guys, we have this one wrong. Here's several other cases for your consideration, showing how big this problem is (the reason arrests are picking up is because LEOs are communicating about this, now that kids are starting to do it more):

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/grosse_p...

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=... (from TODAY)

http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/Five-more-plastic-bottle-expl...

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/Police-warn-about-plastic-bo...

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/bottle-bomb-warning-goes-out-t...

This is a serious problem, not an opportunity to "win another scientist," and the narrative around this case has been disgusting. Reckless behavior and endangering yourself and others intentionally is not the hallmark of a scientist, no matter how much you want the science angle to be true.

No, we have it right. People like you need to stop convicting everybody in our society for momentary instances of foolish behavior. Who cares if it was a ad-hoc experiment or something she saw on YouTube that her friends were trying to get her do? It's still science, and performing it without all the permissions and safety precautions doesn't change that. Even if it just a bunch of kids who just wanted to see something blow up. It's cause and effect. Learning and growing. Yeah, it was stupid, but you learn from stupid things.

Regardless of all that, the charges are completely over the top. Community service, detention, suspension, sure. But the county was trying to charge her with a felony! I did stuff like that in junior high too, because I wanted to see the reaction. I learned from it though, and grew, because I didn't become an instant criminal and have my entire life ruined.

Congratulations, now we just put another young person into the system that strips away the chance to succeed and condemns her, for life, to one childhood mistake.

Starting to do it more?

15 years ago, the grocery stores in my home town wouldn't sell The Works to teenagers.

About the same time the store workers in my town would call the police / fire department when we bought aqua net and/or starter fluid. (I guess 5 teenage dudes buying multiple cans of hairspray was a bit obvious.)

Never did get in trouble with our potato guns. I'm sure I'd already be in jail if it were this day.

now that kids are starting to do it more

Do you have citations to show that this was a bigger problem now then it was 10/20/30/40 years ago? Plenty of folks blew shit up during my day.

she later admitted someone told her how and encouraged her to do it

Link? I hadn't head this and 5 minutes of Googling hasn't turned anything up.

Oh please, I've blown up so much stuff when I was younger, and it was instrumental in encouraging me to learn about science.

Did people get hurt? No.

Was she doing it to hurt people? No.

Was she doing it for attention? No.

She was doing it out of curiosity. She doesn't deserve to be treated like a criminal.

We must look at this in terms of mens rea.

She needs a stern talking to, and probably at least a suspension from school. If they really want to escalate this to an expulsion, fine, but criminal consequences? Probation? Jail? Completely ridiculous.

Like there aren't enough actual criminals to prosecute.

Endangering yourself for curiosity is pretty much the absolute definition of a scientist. By definition, when you do something where you're not sure what it will do - that is, science - it's possibly dangerous.

Let's keep in mind: this incident, where no one was injured or harmed in the slightest, is being punished infinitely more severely than destroying the entire world financial system has been. Because, hey, poor black girl in Florida.

Interestingly, of all your links, not one caused even the slightest injury or slightest property damage. Injuries seem to be rather rare (and plastic shrapnel would lose velocity within a couple of feet).

I can think of another female who endangered herself for curiousity's sake, and the body of scientific knowledge this world possesses is infinitely better for it.

In that particular person's case she wasn't arrested. Instead, it resulted in her becoming the only person ever to receive two Nobel prizes in two separate areas of science.

Go figure.

Did she (or anyone else) realise the magnitude of the danger at the time though? I'd imagine she would have taken more precautions if so. Even now, her papers require protective clothing and cautious handling due to their contamination.

>That story changed under interview,

You go be a 17 year old kid who's never been in trouble before and let's see how tough you are in an interview room with a few cops for a few hours.

Your advocacy for throwing kids into the heavy handed justice system is a much bigger menace to society than Kiera.

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