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Comment by jgrahamc | Hacker News Reader

The Kickstarter itself says: "You're supporting an entirely new type of technology that has the potential to inspire new ideas and future innovative products."

No, you are not. Exploiting the pressure difference like this for inflation is not new by a long shot. Just pop down to REI: http://www.rei.com/product/829645/exped-schnozzel-pumpbag

Edit: read rest of replies below for clarification.

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There are also entirely passive self-inflating mattresses out there. They're filled with (solid-gas) foam that expands when you open the valve. Close the valve and it's ready to go. You store the energy for pumping when you deflate the mattress by rolling it back up. It's much easier to provide energy by sitting on something than by blowing into it :)

I don't know the brand name, only that they were old and worn by the time I was using them as a kid. They must have been commercially available around 1990.

We have a couple of those, I think we bought them at Decathlon[1] a few years ago. But they're fairly "thin", and not particularly confortable.

My favorite method is still the "foot pump"; some camping matteresses have them integrated, so you just need to open the valve and press down with your foot.

You're probably thinking of Therm-a-Rest mattresses. According to Wikipedia, they've been around since the early 1970s.

Yes! That's the brand name. I remember the logo!

Just got back from camping and my friend had a Coleman version of this:

http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Self-Inflating-Camp-Pad-Pillow...

The head pillow is the traditional inflatable thing, but the main pad is exactly as you described.

> The Kickstarter itself says: "You're supporting an entirely new type of technology

> No, you are not. Exploiting the pressure difference like this for inflation is not new by a long shot.

Did you watch the REI video? It's certainly not giving the same impression. The REI video is cumbersome and tedious. You're basically netting air, then sealing it into a large bag, then smushing the bag to push the air into the mattress. By contrast, the new process feels like a single elegant action.

Watching the two videos, the process feels utterly different: sealing and squashing a pillow vs inflating with a breath into a funnel.

However, I have the feeling you can inflate the REI one more because the pressure is higher. If I plan on sleeping on that thing overnight, I don't care about the added inconvenience, if it means it will be more comfortable.

I agree that for a nap in the park, the OP one is better and you look like less of a dork inflating it.

I've got one of the schnozzle bags with a compatible mat. It is categorically not cumbersome, not tedious, weighs the same and is filled with down so it has an R-value[1] of 5.9 instead of 1 which is what really matters when you're using a sleeping mat in a tent on a cold night.

[1] The R-value is a measure of how insulating a mat is, higher is better.

When a new technology is introduced, more than one person may implement said technology, and in different ways. Just because someone else has used physics before doesn't mean this is not new.

I agree, but this is not new by a long shot and it's not even new in the domain where it is being applied. So I stand by my statement that the claim being made in the Kickstarter is untrue.

not new by a long shot

Prove it. Paste a link to an inflatable with an integrated high-speed air filler that doesn't require anything but your mouth to operate.

edit: I will add that this invention is clearly new compared to the pumpbag because it is a single device taking advantage of pressure gradient. The pumpbag only uses pressure gradient to fill the pump; force from your body after the fact provides the pumping action. The OP's invention avoids this necessity, making it both new and improved.

Sure, but the reason that the Exped uses a bag which you pump is that you can increase the pressure in the mattress significantly.

So, OK, I'll agree with you that this is new because the pump is integrated. But I doubt it'll turn out to be superior.

And so I can't post a link to a similar product because the similar products don't do it that way for a reason.

Personally, I'm not terribly concerned about mattress air pressure once it reaches a certain point. I'm more concerned about the mattresses ability to maintain a certain level of air pressure. My use case would probably be camping/hiking and if the windcatcher can provide enough pressure for my body to stay suspended off of the ground, then I'm fine, personally. I do realize that's not necessarily everyone's criteria, though.

I'll also say that I really dig the way the schnozzle works and I'd probably prefer that, mostly because of the dual use as a stuff sack, and that it gives me more options when it comes to mattress selection.

I just like that there are people trying different ideas out, and I get to recline in my chair and see what sticks.

Besides being able to achieve higher pressure (which I agree isn't terribly important), the Expeds need extra force to inflate because they're filled with down or synthetic insulation, which dramatically increases their insulating value. A R value of 1.0 isn't useful as a sleeping pad for hiking except in really warm climates. 2.5 is a realistic minimum for a three-season pad.

I think it is extremely misleading to summarize this technology as just "exploiting pressure differences for inflation". Technically isn't it impossible to inflate something without exploiting pressure differences?

Back to the OP -- this technology looks like a legitimate advance compared to all the valve technologies I have used previusly for camping. Inflating a mattress is a pretty small part of setting up a campsite, however, and I am not sure inflating a mattress is annoying enough to warrant a new purchase, for me at least.

I am really curious to see where they apply this technology in the future.

This comment from Zmetta [1] does a good job of explaining the physics without attempting to reduce them to an ad-hominem attack.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5743500

Edit: typos

You could use springs, in sort of a reverse bellows effect.

Thanks for the schnozzel link! Just last night I pulled out my exped pad and thought "huh, that's going to be annoying to fill up". Problem solved thanks to your good offices.

Seems pretty new to me. The Schnozzel is not remotely the same product. I don't think they are claiming that effect they are exploiting is a new technology, rather integrating that directly into the nosel of an inflatable.

It may not be the first implementation of this kind of technology, but if it does it better and we haven't heard of the others, then it doesn't matter.

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