Guess You Thought I Was Someone To Mess With | Hacker News Reader

Guess You Thought I Was Someone To Mess With

georgiaweidman.com

62 pointsteaspoon28 comments

That's fucking awful. On far too many levels.

Right now I'm feeling very angry, I'm not going to write anything more other than to say: it doesn't matter what Georgia wore, it doesn't matter if she let that bastard into her room, it doesn't matter if she said something he might have construed as sexual. You don't rape women.

Georgia did nothing wrong here. To say otherwise is disgusting, and if you think it you're a worm. Less than a worm actually.

ETA: I agree with mvanveen's comment below. As Georgia says, her duty is done. My confusion should be taken as my own failure to relate. Our duty is to fix these problems.

I'm confused by the attitude of (maybe I'm reading this wrong) "This is a big deal, not like that silly 'feminist' stuff" when everything wrong here (other than the attack itself) is subtle institutionalized sexism.

They guy's a creeper, but he wasn't already outed and banned.

The victim's story is questioned because of flirting/drinking/invitation/politeness

She had to second-guess herself and worry about legalities during the attack.

She's now afraid of sexist comments and still doesn't want to publicly name someone who is dangerous. (I'm not criticizing her choice per se, the problem is whatever is giving her reason not to identify him)

It's easy to treat all of these as little things, but if the community had treated these issues as a big deal and dealt with them, maybe this attack wouldn't even have happened.

I am not "confused" by this attitude. Can we cut a victim some slack? I think asking her to take on that "subtle institutionalized sexism" is part of the reason she expressed qualms about publishing this in the first place.

I think it took tremendous courage for the author to post this and I don't think it's fair to ask her to try and address all these issues with her tone.

I think the fact we're more interested in analyzing the authors tone rather than sympathizing with a woman who DEFENDED HERSELF FROM RAPE and wasn't given sufficient support at a conference is maybe why she feels like she has to put out such a tone.

Please don't misinterpret me and think I'm saying that dongle jokes are ok and that subtle, institutionalized sexism isn't a big deal. I just think we could do more to give people some safe space to express anecdotes like this, and that might help foster an atmosphere of discussion.

Maybe then the next person who has the courage to come forward with an issue like this will feel empowered enough to talk about the cultural factors you're mentioning without needing to get on the defensive.

(This comment is based on reading the edited thread-starting post, but is more of an aside to the topic)

As someone involved in minority liberation campaigning, one of the biggest failings I see of my peers is not letting members of the minority group /just get on with their lives/. We are fighting for people to not have to fight, so it's important that we support the right of those marginalised to /not take a stand/, give them support when they on occasion decide to do so, and yet not expect them to do so again.

Thank you, edited.

I was similarly taken aback by her apparent dismissal of feminism. For most of her post, she outlined the subtle institutional sexism that enables her would-be rapist and prevents her from taking any effective action.

Does she believe that by giving credence to the feminism that challenges the less overt sexist attitudes and actions in the community, we divert attention from 'real' violence towards women? Perhaps she's aware of the fact that many dismiss feminism categorically, so she's attempting to distinguish the violence towards her as a real offense.

Either way I agree with you, but I also can't blame her for writing it the way she did. I hope that the incredible guts it took for her to write this post encourages other women to be vocal about their own experiences of this nature. I hope this gently open a dialogue on sexism with an undeniable and overt demonstration of sexism in the community. But right now, I hope that the community supports her.

The way I read a lot of that apparent dismissal of feminism was as a way to get her community to see her complaint as legit. That is, by saying "I'm not one of those feminists, the ones that get upset at every little grope," she's trying to underline that she has a serious incident to report and is not blowing it out of proportion.

Honestly, I think that's heartbreaking twice over. Not only is she working in a context that she perceives as hostile to her getting respect and equal treatment, but she apparently feels that she has to bad-mouth those pursuing equality just to have a hope of getting people to accept her assault report at face value. And all that comes on top of getting assaulted and robbed and almost raped. That is hideous.

From what I understand, the infosec community has been in an uproar lately about somebody objecting to some sort of sexual content in a conference talk. So perhaps she feels she's speaking in a context where she really has create a lot of distance between herself and the people on the losing end of that uproar.

Like you, I really admire her for speaking out like this. After my mom died a couple years back, I learned from her sisters that she had been raped as a teen, and had insisted on pressing charges and testifying in court, despite social pressure to just let it go. I was immensely proud of her. I still am.

The real problem is what happens after an attack or disagreeable issue. Neither party can be sure of the "process", there will be conflicting stories, other factors, reactions from the less informed, societal norms, bias etc. If there was an expectation of a prompt rapid justice process then that would have been the solution, and it would certainly diminish future issues.

Instead the poster has to consider if there would even be justice, how long it would take, if it would be reasonable/objective, comments from the peanut gallery etc. Hopefully societies will keep getting better at this.

This tweet has the info about the attacker. https://twitter.com/Packetknife/status/347136455459618818

Two twit pics, to really ram this home:

http://t.co/cUdy33pxbl

http://t.co/edOkjADKNB

Why not out the guy? at the very least, as warning to other people to be weary around him.

She mentioned on Twitter that she's afraid of a lawsuit. Somebody told her it would be libel. I'm pretty sure that's not true in the US. But even if she would eventually win the lawsuit, they can still be ruinously expensive, so her fear could be justifiable.

Anyhow, other people have outed the guy on Twitter. You can turn it up with a little rummaging. Several people have asked him for his side of the story, but there has been no reply as yet.

Well, we have a lot of metadata...

The response from the accused bloke - http://blog.gont.com.ar/2013/06/lies-nuts-and-quest-for-atte...

Yeah, that's persuasive. My summary: "Women are hysterical! And the bitch is crazy! And there was alcohol! And you bad people shouldn't jump to conclusions. And I'm not going to contribute to the drama by addressing any of the accusations directly or making any factual statements, so instead I'll contribute to the drama by clutching my pearls and calling for the fainting couch about the shocking state of modern discourse. And also, I will make vague threats of suing people."

Depressing. And ridiculous. She gave a detailed account of what happened, and has posted photos of her injuries. He didn't even bother to deny the accusations, let alone give his side of the story.

So he accuses her of mental illness on one hand and complains of slander on the other. What a charmer.

Quite a direct story. And it's hard to find that line where further advancements suddenly become unwelcome. I guess the advice "know your limits" is what we have.

If the other party says "no", "stop", "I'm not comfortable with this", or any number of other things like this, then you stop. Immediately.

When someone screams "no" and bites you hard on the arm, that's a clue.

I don't think it's hard to know the line where further advances become unwelcome. I ask. It's surprisingly easy; you should try it.

> you should try it

Is that some kind of bad-faith accusation?

"The wicked flee when no man pursueth."

No, it was encouragement to try it.

and yet the word 'try' implies to me some other meaning.

Why not try talking straight instead of abstractly?

No, you infer some other meaning. That's all you. I meant what I said, and I said what I meant.

Unfortunately, not everyone knows what you mean.

Thanks for writing this. If anyone else is ever in a similar situation, please do your best to get out of the room. Even if you think your attacker might be hurt and is no longer restraining you, just get out. Get out and THEN call someone. Knock on doors, whatever... if you don't have your phone. Staying put and waiting for the attacker to leave is a BAD idea, even if you get a chance to use a phone.

How did the police react to the evidence of theft? Is there an investigation under way? Shouldn't the guy get charged with that, at the very least?

We only know her side of the story, but it is still a very brave thing to write.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com