Kalzumeus Podcast 5: Quitting Consulting Via Productization

Patrick has put his finger on this concern before, and (I feel) persuasively reframed things to resonate with an engineering mindset:

  http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

I've tried to use this same reframing approach when working with people to estimate a software schedule (for complex projects with external promises). Basically, if you can establish that engineering is about tradeoffs -- such as between runtime and memory footprint and code size and small vs large values of N and so on -- then certainly human development time is another resource subject to tradeoffs, where we should identify alternate scenarios and try to aim for the optimal one.

Finding ways to talk to people in terms that resonate is tricky -- and often almost a matter of bridging micro-cultures, where subtle tribal affinity signals are needed to gain trust -- so I was impressed that Patrick could break down salary negotiation in a way that didn't seem skeezy to people who just want to build great things and not worry they are getting shafted.

> How did he jump from a book in 2009 to having several products on what basically amounts to life coaching (dream job, earning money on the side, resume improvements, etc)?

The funny thing about Hacker News is you never know who's going to be reading your posts. Hi! I'm the person who convinced Ramit to quit his day job and do this blogging/product thing full time several years ago. I also know Patrick personally and it's an interesting comparison you are making between the two of them.

> In only 3 years since the book he's convinced individuals to drop $2-15k on the promise that he can help them get a better job.

I understand the skepticism around Ramit's products, especially from the HN crowd. However, knowing Ramit and having been through his products as a reviewer, they are stellar, and the results he gets for his students are meticulously documented. That's not to say they're for everyone--as an entrepreneur myself, I didn't get as much value as a job-seeker would have, and Ramit is probably a couple years away from creating a product geared toward entrepreneurs.

Knowing both Ramit and Patrick, the main similarity I see is both have a deeply analytical mind. Neither takes anything for granted, and they're both fanatical testers...not just with marketing copy, but also with their products. Ramit goes to ridiculous levels to make sure his products are bar none the best out there. He spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on salaries and hiring the best people so that his products can be the top of their class.

Patrick is a bit different, as he got burned on consulting (I'm sure he'll tell that story when he's ready) and went back to focusing on products. He's newer to the info product segment than Ramit, and a little more gun-shy when it comes to aggressive sales. (Ramit uses more aggressive sales tactics because he strongly feels--and has the testimonials to back it up--that he does have the best stuff out there.) Patrick is more cautious, as a geek first and foremost, and someone who built up his list through Hacker News and other geek-oriented websites.

In neither case would I hesitate to buy one of their products that was aimed in my direction or endorse them for other folks in their respective target markets. Both Patrick and Ramit operate from a foundation of integrity and putting the best stuff out there. I'm fortunate to count both of them as friends and mentors.

The "jump" is seldom more than a decision to change your path. Robert Ringer's Leapfrog Theory states: "No one has an obligation—moral, legal, or otherwise—to 'work his way up through the ranks.' Every human being possesses an inalienable right to make a unilateral decision to redirect his career and begin operating on a higher level at any time he believes he is prepared to do so."

On that note, Patrick, ask him to move your audio to be in the center (stereo wise), rather than entirely on the right channel as it is now. If you listen with headphones to this episode, Keith is spread across both left and right while you are solely on the right channel. Confusing to the ears.

Still listening, but as always, great episode thus far!

Levelator [1] does a great job of leveling audio between guests, I'd suggest running it on old episodes too.

[1] http://www.conversationsnetwork.org/levelator

Part of the reason I'm offering my opinion is because of the hero worship that happens on this site. Sometimes opinions aren't as balanced as I'd like them to be.

Another way to think about this is that Patrick puts out an info product, and then runs customer development and marketing through blogging and podcasting.

(I am 100% guilty of patio11 hero worship and will continue to do so, as his post on salary negotiation has made me more money than everything else on the Internet combined.)

That seems like potentially an impoverishing sort of attitude?

One more for the list is Startups For The Rest Of Us - highly recommended.

I am not sure if you mean the list of fiction podcasts, or small business ones. Either way, they all have my hearty recommendations!

There are a lot of voters who are quick to downvote. Sadly many of the dislike entirely legitimate questions (such as yours) because they know the answer.

So don't sweat it, besides you are already reopvoted.