So, if I beat someone with a phone, I'm a hacker?
> when Apollo whatever number went wrong
13? Or was Zeus with the Apollo you speak and there were wacky antics with a man in a thick mustache? I think that was "whatever P.I.", but I'm not sure.
> I don't see a coder who starts with a blank page and libraries or APIs as a hacker as such.
This I totally agree with you on. Every developer that creates something new is not a hacker. Not long after PG started the site, it became a watering hole for the top minds in development and technology. Then people like me joined (years ago, under different name then), and now it is a more civil form of slashdot mixed with MBA's, lawyers (it seems), and wannabe's. I count myself in the wannabe's group not because I "want to be", but because despite many years in the business, I know I don't pass muster as a "hacker". It's not PG's fault that HN is filled with non-hackers. That is the normal way things devolve with any kind of popular open club. To paraphrase Groucho Marx (because there is apparently no official version of the quote): I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.