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Comment by pbsdp | Hacker News Reader

All you need to do is perform NaCL validation of pages before marking them executable; this is what NaCL already does.

You can either do this through a high-level "JIT API" that generates safe machine code from a validated IR (aka PNaCL), or through a fancier version of mprotect() that validates the actual machine code (aka NaCL).

In a wondrous hypothetical future where processors support a NaCL restricted operating mode, you wouldn't even need to validate; just set the processor state to thumb^Wnacl mode, and define a syscall instruction that switches to direct execution (without actually requiring a context switch to the kernel, just flip an execution flag).

This is why NaCL is so damn interesting, and JS/asm.js is not. NaCL has the possibility of turning our design of restricted execution environments on its head, in a very good (for performance) way.

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You can already do that with NaCl - or even asm.js with eval, I bet it wouldn't be that much slower. But current JITs apparently gain a significant amount of performance with inline caching, which expects code to be able to be rewritten very quickly.

Edit to respond to your edit: although it would be cool to be able to have a "sandboxed mode" that can somehow be switched out of more cheaply than an interrupt, the whole thing seems like a massive hack to me. After all, NaCl does not take advantage of its pseudo-ability to do so: NaCl code runs in its own process and already incurs a context switch whenever it communicates with the browser, so there is no inherent hardware reason NaCl couldn't just run directly under the kernel and have the kernel provide the same level of sandboxing as the NaCl runtime currently does. It's just an issue of getting such an approach to work portably with existing kernels... hardware support might be able to make it easier to get that to work, but it's probably unnecessary.

> In a wondrous hypothetical future where processors support a NaCL restricted operating mode

If we speculate wildly, why not an "asm.js restricted operating mode"? Not saying that's a good idea, but I'm not sure why a NaCl one would be either. Both PNaCl and asm.js should reach pretty much native speed anyhow.

Btw, the L is not capitalized in NaCl.

> If we speculate wildly, why not an "asm.js restricted operating mode"?

Because we already had Jazelle, and it sucked, and we learned our lesson. A Jazelle that operates on ASCII-encoded bytecode with traps for unsupported JS constructs? No thanks. :)

> Not saying that's a good idea, but I'm not sure why a NaCl one would be either. Both PNaCl and asm.js should reach pretty much native speed anyhow.

Pretty much native and actually native are very different things.

I've had to sit down and hand-optimize critical paths that would not have been viable otherwise, and would have meant discarding a feature, or introducing a significant impact on usability -- and that's on platforms where similar investments in runtime library optimization were already made by the platform vendor, too.

If we're going to throw away performance, it has to be for a good reason. As someone who doesn't spend all day on platform development (as interesting as it might be), my focus is in providing the best possible user experience.

I'd love to do that on the web, but the web needs to punting throwing away solid technology decisions because of the bad technology decisions made in the early 90s when none of us knew what the hell we were doing.

> Btw, the L is not capitalized in NaCl.

Whoops. Thanks. Now I will look less stupid in front of software engineers AND my chemistry buddies. :)

> If we're going to throw away performance, it has to be for a good reason

I agree.

We are losing performance in return for: portability, security and standardization. The web runs everywhere, has a good outlook for continuing to do so (no fat binaries of current archs), and anyone can build a new web browser based on standards.

None of the other options proposed give us portability, secutiy and standardization right now. Perhaps with more work they might, and perhaps JS VMs will get closer to their speed as well. It's good to try to from both sides to improve things, and people are doing so.

I don't think anyone is overlooking some obvious better solution - that fits the requirements - that is before us. PNaCl (NaCl is not portable, so not relevant here) is interesting, just like the JVM and CLR, but they have major hurdles to pass if they want to be standardized, and that effort has not even begun in the case of PNaCl.

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