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Comment by Svip | Hacker News Reader

This is nothing new. All BBC articles on Denmark are almost entirely inaccurate. It's like the BBC has no researchers in Denmark or on Denmark, and basically swallow some brochure.

Every other week, a Danish newspaper has an article about another BBC article painting another rose picture of Denmark. Is the BBC working for the Danish tourism board?!

Just two weeks ago, a BBC article claimed Danes can usually command 3 languages besides English and Danish, which hardly accurate (unless they count Swedish and Norwegian, but that's cheating!).

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IF you want to be conspiratorial it is because of the BBC's admitted liberal bias - many of their staff would prefer to live in a Scandinavian style country which they perceive to have none or fewer of the faults that the UK does.

There seems to be a general Scandinavian/Nordic idealism pervasive across the internet amongst young westerners. Countless reddit threads extol the glories of living in one of these countries. Young people facing the stressors of capitalism perk up at the thought of all that "free stuff." Free healthcare! Free leave! Free breakfast! etc etc. They never end up even visiting much less living there and realizing they could probably never stay there long term. Growing up in America, you are going to have a hard time acclimating to the lifestyle and culture of these countries.

I am interested. What are the biggest and most significant differences between american and scandinavian/nordic lifestyle and culture in your opinion ?

The Economist did an article on Swedish state provided childcare a while back. Cheap nurseries provide by the state are a boon, but also teach what it is to be a Swedish citizen. Immigrants especially are highly incentivised to send their children to state nurseries through welfare payments being dependant upon it.

So there's a very communitarian mindset that is inculcated from an early age in Scandinavian children. The recent story on here around attitudes and how the USA is much more individually minded compared to Europe in general is magnified.

So the famous liberalism of Scandinavia is built on a single, illiberal act by the state which then sets up its citizens to have freedom. Whereas other countries allow parents to raise children in much more varied ways, you end up with more diversity but that can produce some nasty results.

My experience growing up in the U.S. was that there is a strong desire to inculcate a certain Americanness there as well, and resistance to people failing to integrate and adopt it, though it might not be to the same extent. As a superficial but very visible aspect, we started each day in elementary school by saying a Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag. There was also a strong focus on American civics and history throughout schooling, often with a general tone of American exceptionalism, and a normative view of what it means to be an American. In high school in Texas, this was even supplemented by a normative view of what it means to be a Texan, though those of us not from Nth-generation Texan families tended not to take that part seriously by that age.

As far as schooling goes, Denmark is more liberal than the U.S. when it comes to choice, because there are school vouchers (not sure if true in Sweden). If you prefer not to use the state system, you can get a voucher equal to the prorated per-student cost of public education, to spend on private education instead. One of my colleagues uses this to send her daughter to an English-language school, rather than a Danish-language school. The U.S. doesn't have any similar program that will let you choose a Spanish-language school over an English-language school (and there is huge political pressure against Spanish-language schooling, because it is seen as a failure to integrate into proper Americanness).

Perhaps you've heard that the UK prime minister has declared the state policy of multiculturalism as failed. Looks like nurseres teaching English values might've been a better idea.

Until recently Sweden also had mandatory national service. They also don't recognise dual-nationality. As with most Western European countries, they struggle with immigration.

Although this all sounds a little bit communist and making everyone the same, they have a massive music industry export, so they're not losing creativity.

Actually Sweden does recognise dual citizenship. http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/399_en.html

Also you might want to learn the difference between communism and socialism as you have it all wrong currently.

Yes, it's common for immigrants employed in Copenhagen to chose to live in Malmö and commute, because the Swedish path to citizenship is nicer: it's shorter, and doesn't require them to give up other citizenships. This has annoyed the more nationalist part of the Danish political scene, who see it as a loophole.

I moved from the U.S. to Denmark 2 1/2 years ago and so far am liking it. The healthcare really does work without me having to shop for complex insurance packages! I really do get 6 weeks/year in vacation! People really do work 37-hour work weeks! There really are good arts grants if you want to bootstrap your indie-game or film company! (And a good safety net so you don't end up homeless if your company fails.) It hasn't been a bad experience at all. Why should I have trouble acclimatizing to the culture?

The only thing really difficult to acclimatize to is the language, which is hard to speak (though easy to read/write). And to some extent the weather. But Copenhagen in particular is incredibly easy to live in as a foreigner. And it is diverse enough that culture-wise you can hang out with whoever you want to, more or less; my social group includes a number of Germans, some Spaniards, some Danes, some Arabs, some Greeks, some Swedes, and some Koreans.

I moved to Sweden from Britain 10 years ago and all its all truly rosy in Sweden too. I hope the BBC succeeds in nordicising Britain!

> There seems to be a general Scandinavian/Nordic idealism pervasive across the internet amongst young westerners.

Seems a little more well-researched than the hopes and dreams of young westerners to go on a roadtrip, study or live and work in America based on watching 100 Hollywood movies.

Scandinavia is much more homogenic than Britian. But don't tell the liberals about it, because they still think it is about the taxes. Silly people.

One thing to note: it's a "magazine" article. Those are the some of the most superficial articles on the BBC website. Even the material that is aimed at kids can be more hard hitting.

Just curious, which parts are not accurate? I would be very nice to know for someone who is not Danish.

As my parent points out, the statement by Christian Bjørnskov, that Danes are ambitious. Danes are far more interested in working for an employer than being one (on average). Danes like a large welfare state and we like comfort.

While Bjørnskov goes on to hide his suggestion with the fact that Danes don't like to show off (we have a culture against showing off, see Law of Jante[1], which is diminishing but very slowly), his concept of 'ambitious' does not translate into something that makes Danes particularly happier.

Our 'happiness' rating stems from our comfort, because despite the welfare state's quirks, it does work some of the time. But it is a huge drag on the treasury, and a lot of the money are not exactly spent efficiently.

Denmark is not a perfect place, and I am not sure people coming here will automatically be happier (particularly considering how we treat immigrants).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

I thought Danish people were the happiest people in the world because they had the lowest expectations. 60 Minutes did a piece on it a while back: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3841772n

We do, because our comfort level is so high. Because one might ask, 'why do Danes have such low expectations?' following that conclusion.

> Danes are far more interested in working for an employer than being one (on average). Danes like a large welfare state and we like comfort.

I don't think you're necessarily right about that statement. Most people I know dreams of being self-employed, especially where I grew up in Jutland. That doesn't make me right either. Both of us are using ourselves as a measurement here, and that's probably a bad idea.

Most people dream of working abroad. When it comes down to it they really do prefer to live at home. Same things goes for being self employed.

You can't judge anything based on what people say they want to do, you have to do it based on what they do, especially in a country like Denmark where it's literally risk free to start a company.

Risk free? My 5 years of paying off debt from a failed company says otherwise.

Yeah but you don't have to deal with for instance healthcare cost should you or your family get into trouble. And believe me, you do not want to be caught of guard in the US without proper healthcare which for a self-employed is really expensive and sub par to working in a large organisation with a proper healthcare setup.

You still have to factor in that very same safety net. You'll lose a guaranteed income, from the state, by choosing the entrepreneurial route vs. unemployment. That's taking a pretty big risk for something that might never amount to anything.

In other countries you're basically screwed, if you can't get a job. You have to then seriously consider doing something on your own accord. The same incentive is largely missing here in Scandinavia.

Risk comes in many variations!

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