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Comment by tspike | Hacker News Reader

When the Snowden documents were released, I got into a heated debate with a friend, who argued that he has nothing to hide.

He said he couldn't believe anyone was naïve enough to think the government wasn't monitoring everything already, and that we elected them, so we should trust them. He said that privacy concerns sound pretty trivial compared to preventing incidents like the Boston Marathon bombings or apprehending the suspects, and that he'll gladly cooperate to help stop the bad guys.

We pretty much ruined lunch for everyone with our arguing, but he has since spent more time looking into the nuances of the topic and has said he has changed his mind. The thought of not being able to trust the government is really depressing to him.

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When the Snowden documents were released, I got into a heated debate with a friend, who argued that he has nothing to hide.

I heard Bruce Schneider being interviewed, and he said that people frequently challenge him by saying they have nothing to hide. His two-second retort, especially on call-in shows, is simple: "What's your salary?"

No one wants to answer in public.

Ironically, if you pay taxes, that's something the government doesn't even have to spy on you for.

I can list sooo many things people would want to hide:

- Salary

- Medical history

- Home address

- Phone number

- DOB

- SS number

- Bank account numbers

- Passwords

- Photos of yourself

- Photos of your children

- Job search history (when you are already employed)

- What time you'll be out of the house

- Porn search history

It's because you can't give that information out without also granting write access to a person's life.

If there were a way I could give you my SSN/bank information/etc without also granting you the ability to impersonate me, I'd gladly do it.

Yep, but that's only true for some of those things. Others, like salary and photos of your kids, have other reasons for staying hidden (impact on social situations and safety).

Eh, if I didn't think my company would be upset with me telling you what I make, I'd let you know. It's not a big deal to me. You could probably figure it out based on where I live and what I do with my free time anyway.

As for pictures of my kids, I don't have any. But it's a pretty terrible argument because it perpetuates the false idea that you must want to hide something for privacy to be necessary.

I'd bet large sums of money Bruce Schneier has never used this line of defense against the "nothing to hide" argument.

If you work somewhere that's anything like places I've ever worked, then I think knowing your salary might have a bigger impact on some of your colleagues than you might think, eventually causing some blowback to come your way. Just my observation from past experience.

Yeah I know, but that's not my burden, that's theirs.

I'd also like to point out that I promised not to give that information away, and regardless of the privacy implications, I can't in good consciousness break my own word.

Hiding salary information is usually because it can often create awkward tension in your social groups. Like if your poor friends or family know you make a lot more money than you let show.

I know it's not the only reason for privacy, but it's a common and significant one.

Adultery, casual drug use, problems with drinking, what you said about your boss e.g he's a jerk, and a million other stuff.

Nah man, doesn't always work. Whe I tried that, they said "Nothing to hide from the government, not everyone."

Then tell them: "You're uninteresting then, it's not about you".

And add:

"Interesting people that shake up the status quo and make this world a better place, from Ghandi to MLK, HAVE had lots of stuff to hide from the government".

"Not to mention that in your shallow mind you only imagine an ever benevolent government. Would you have something to hide if Anna Frank's family asked to stay in your apartment?"

Fun fact: In Norway, everyone's salary is public :)

(Well, technically, the amount of taxes paid is public, from which you can make a good guess at salary)

> The thought of not being able to trust the government is really depressing to him.

And that's how a libertarian anarchist comes to be.

>I got into a heated debate with a friend, who argued that he has nothing to hide

Find out something embarrasing about said friend, and ask it if it's ok to post in on Facebook.

If you seriously have nothing to hide, you're boring. That might be worth hiding.

Do you trust the government with nuclear weapons?

Not just no, but hell no.

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