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It's a trend with certain dealerships. In my experience, the low-end car companies tend to do this more often. As a hobby, I help friends buy/negotiate cars, so I've had experience with several dealerships. Here's my list from memory:

Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge: Horrendous. I have never found a dealership I like in this chain.

Nissan: Hit or miss. One dealership was fantastic (San Diego) and one I went to was the awful "hard sell" place.

Mazda: Every one I've been to has been good save for one (unfortunately, that one is the closest to where I now live in Austin, TX.) If you live in Austin and want a Mazda, go to the dealership on the south side. They will literally throw you the keys and let you test-drive any of their cars.

Acura: Good overall, though have not been impressed with the salespeople themselves.

BMW/Mini, Lexus, Mercedes/Smart, Porsche: Have always had good experiences with these dealerships. One caveat: My fiance has a BMW and we bought it certified used, and it didn't come with a manual. A year later, despite multiple requests, we still don't have a manual. The sales experience was good, however.

Of all of the above, Lexus has been the most consistently awesome. I've been to 4 different dealerships and all were extremely pleasant.

Of note: Two dealerships have offered me jobs as a car saleswoman after I negotiated with them for friends.

Seconding BMW/Mini - I've now leased two cars from them and had a pleasant experience both times.

VW - I won't touch, last time I was in one I was told "we don't have time to deal with you today" when there was nobody else in the dealership.

GM - Wouldn't talk to me until they ran a credit check. Afterwards were very pushy about me buying the car that day.

Subaru - Was hesitant to talk to me until they'd determined I COULD afford the car.

Honda - poor kid knew nothing about cars. No, when someone says "I drive a Mini, I'm looking for something small but not quite as small" you don't suggest an Accord.

I've had pretty good experiences with Toyota, which jives with your experiences with Lexus, as they are part of Toyota.

I've even had good experiences with Scion. Their whole "no haggling" business works for me.

The car itself on the other hand... a little bit of buyer's remorse.

I hate to say it, but this kind of service is what drove me from mainstream brands altogether.

* Wanted to buy a Ford Boss 302 Mustang. $43,000 MSRP car advertised as track-ready. Dealer said he wanted to mark up the car $25,000, and required that $25,000 as a deposit. I said for that kind of money I'd buy a Porsche Boxster S, and walked out. I found the experience similar at other dealerships.

* Got some calls the next year about the Boss 302. They were willing to sell them at MSRP. I can test drive it right? Nope. How about with a $20,000 refundable security deposit to show I have the cash -- can I drive it then? Nope. I told them I'm not buying a car that will see track duty unless I can drive it. Again, said I'd buy a Porsche.

* Went to Porsche dealerships. Interested in a Boxster S? Well, let's take out a Boxster first to see if that might be enough power, since it'd save you money. Not enough torque? Awesome, let's go wring the neck of a Boxster S _for an hour_. You like it? Fantastic. Hey, here's some free lunch. Not looking to purchase today? No problem, you come back in February when you have the down payment you want saved up and we'll get an order going for you. We'll mail you some goodies too.

Needless to say, dealer gets my deposit ($5K, same as it'd be for a 911 Turbo S) in February to start the order.

Did it look like you have money and were you in a place where people that look like you have money?

As an aside, the dealers with the higher echelon cars that I've been to, even just wandering around, seem to be more awesome people. I'm especially talking about audi (used), bmw (new and used), Lamborghini (new)). Even the Subaru dealer I went to with clear motive to just test drive was very polite. Direct, but polite, and that's all I could ask for.

I wear boat shots, a nice pair of Levis and a nice polo. Same as I always wear.

Audi and BMW have specifically treated me like a piece of crap every time I've stepped into their showroom (maybe three times each) for the past 15 years. Nowadays I don't set foot in either because they no longer sell cars I'm interested in (R8 a bit too dear for my budget).

I've worked at BMW, Mercedes, and Hyundai dealerships. BMWs are just straight up nicer to drive than Hyundais. People who work at dealerships bounce around from lot to lot pretty casually, and the people who love cars do their best to bounce onto lots that have good cars. Salesmen are out to make money either way, but if you go to a BMW lot, you're much more likely to find a guy who has earned a place at a high end dealership because he likes the cars. So he's not JUST going to be after your wallet.

Happens at the lower end too. I was ready to buy a new car after 10 years with my previous car. I researched 2013 hybrids and decided on the Honda CR-Z. A 2 seater that has an available 6 speed manual transmission which was the big selling point for me.

Call my local Honda dealer to find out if they have the 2013 6MT in stock. "No but we have a 2012." I'm not interested in the 2012 model because the 13s have a better battery and electric motor--more HP and torque on a fairly underpowered car. They have no interest in finding one or ordering it.

I understand that it is a new model and they don't have anything in stock yet but a complete disinterest in working with a new customer can't be good for a business. I went online and a week or so later found the car that I was looking for though I had to drive 30 miles to get it. A month later the original dealer calls back to find out if I want to buy a car. Stupid approach to business.

We had the same experience at a VW dealer. The salesperson was nice, let us take a nice long test drive, and worked out a reasonable deal for us with little pressure. As soon as we went to the finance side, though (we used VW credit), it turned into Glengarry Glen Ross. Additional warranty, extra fees, extra maintenance plans, and on and on. We sat in what felt like an interrogation room saying "no, thank you" for 30 minutes before we could walk out of there.

The finance guys are always the worst. (See my above post; as a hobby, I help friends negotiate on cars.) Here is what I do: I always scout for the finance guy beforehand, and let him know I'm going to say no to everything. They always laugh and say, "Okay, but you know I have to ask you this stuff anyway."

So I sit down in the finance room and as he's printing out the "long sheet" I just look him in the eye and say "No" before he even says anything. He'll laugh again but then he'll go through it really fast for you. I have done this countless times and it always works well.

P.S. Never buy an extended warranty. Invest that money instead and use it if you need to buy parts later. They are a ripoff and the finance guys know it. If you do feel a great need to give the dealership extra money, know this: The fees, like everything else, are negotiable.

I actually did buy an extended warranty for our Prius. It was a lease, and the warranty then covered the car to the end of the lease. On top of that, it covered all oil changes and maintenance checkups listed in the maintenance schedule. I ran the numbers and found that it was basically the same cost as paying for that maintenance directly, but this way the cost was rolled into the lease payments. I figured it was a clear win for the piece of mind and easier budgeting. Of course, the costs could vary, so always run the numbers.

When you ran the numbers, were you pricing things out based on how much the dealership charges? I change my own oil for about US$18, but the dealership charges US$342 (an extreme example I admit).

Wow, I'll say that's extreme, bordering on criminal. Do they wipe down the oil lines with a Q-tip, or something?

I went with the dealership charges. Oil changes were US$20-25 and they top off all fluids and tires and give you a free car wash. I can't remember the other maintenance costs off hand, but they came really close to the US$650 for the extended warranty.

> Why can't I go online and order the Jeep (or whatever else) I want and have it delivered or pick it up from a non-jackass?

True, you can't go to Amazon Cars or equivalent, but there are options. Have you tried the internet sales department? Edmund's called it "a valuable time- and money-saver."[1]

> I wish the car manufacturers would get with it.

It's not like they haven't tried to make the buying experience more pleasant. Saturn was doing no-haggle pricing as early as 1990[2]. Scion is doing it today[3]. Gut feel is that the buying experience just isn't that important to most people with durable goods. The car is what brings us into dealerships, not the sales staff.

[1]: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/how-to-get-an-internet-pri...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Corporation#1990.E2.80....

[3]: http://www.scion.com/buy/pure_price/

Screw going to amazon et al to buy anything that changes as constantly as a car. or a cellphone.

I just ordered 3 kindles. I'm pretty sure i will go trhu the hassle of returning 2. but i couldn't see them in person anywhere!

the amazon model is perfect for 'permanent' items. such as book and commodity electronics.

I bet my right arm that you wouldn't ever buy a car from amazon if you couldn't test drive it at the local shoddy dealer.

I've seen Kindles of all types at most Best-Buys and Targets in my area.

> Screw going to amazon et al to buy anything that changes as constantly as a car. or a cellphone.

You've made it clear you're a person who requires extensive test-driving. Amazon's cell phone business doesn't seem to be hurting. I've ordered my last two cell phones online sight-unseen. Same for recent laptops and a Nook. I'll take the uncertainty of holding a modern device over the sales staff.

> I bet my right arm that you wouldn't ever buy a car from amazon if you couldn't test drive it at the local shoddy dealer.

The average car age in the US is now 11.4 years old[1]. My car will likely be 15 before I get another one. In VW's terms, that's at least three generations of progress. I'm buying a car for a decade, and none of the problems that come up in a decade will be revealed by a test drive.

Regardless, I merely agreed it wasn't currently an option and the parent may have a better experience with the internet sales department of his or her local dealerships.

[1]: http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/average-age-of-cars-in-us-ju...

> but i couldn't see them in person anywhere!

What country are you in? In the US, you can see Kindle at any Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Staples, OfficeMax and several other national retailers that cover most of the country.

Office max had a non-working model. Best buy only had the fire ones.

Hell will freeze before a DX is on display it seems.

I've got a DX for reading technical books. It's great for that. If you intend on reading tech books on a Kindle, definitely get the DX or the big Fire HD! The little paper whites aren't going to cut it.

The last time I was in the market for a car, from my own personal experience, given that I have no legitimate data, the prices at Carmax seemed to be roughly equivalent to the asking price for comparable vehicles at most used car dealers. I suspect you could get a similar purchasing experience from most dealers by simply not negotiating.

You would be impressed how many people does impulses buys of $40k cars.