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ck2

I have a better question about that.

Was he just wrong because he just didn't know?

Or was it much worse in that he knew and was outright lying?

Because I would honestly like to really know.

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I think you got the outcome ranking flipped. If Obama knew and lied: politicians tell lies and have done so for ever.

If he didn't know, then the most powerful spy agency in the world was disobeying an elected official. Given the control they could exercise over officials via say black mail (just think what Anthony Wiener would have done to avoid those pic's coming out earlier or Petraeus to avoid his affair being known), this is really scary.

He was lying. Watched the press conference. The insane degree of hesitation and very-careful-word-picking he did are not the hallmarks of a man speaking sooth.

Yeah, it really gets interesting if you compare his recent press conferences on the matter against what his speeches sounded like in 2007; here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix4sy25wF-E

I watched the press conference too and that's how he always talks. You can't read much into that.

Reading this, I actually felt my brain snap a little and I laughed hysterically until I couldn't breathe for about five minutes straight.

I think anyone just skipping over this bit here really needs to stop and consider more closely the magnitude of this completely true astute observation.

Don't know if you saw your sibling's response, but it's not how he's always talked (slightly different to what you said, I know). I forget what it was he was responding to, but you could see him blundering headlong into nearly discussing a classified programme OTR, and changed the tack of his sentence after a good eight seconds of pause. I'll see if I can find the moment, but I just sat there astounded at the blatancy of it.

Would be interested in seeing this if you can find it.

You know, I would have to imagine that if Obama were in full possession of all the facts, he would have known that Snowden had those slides and kept his mouth shut. Obama's just too smart to make a blunder like this.

Talking about things you don't know to be true is still a lie in my book. The correct way of dealing with this would have been for him to say - we don't know but we have launched a full scale investigation. He failed to do so, while still protecting the NSA in the face of all accusations and proof to the contrary. Does it really matter if he knew or not?

We'll never know how much Obama is involved in all of this, but another possibility would be that the masses simply don't care much about facts and believe the words spoken by what seems to be a competent authority in the matter, especially one they voted for. Ask regular people what they think about this whole deal, you'll have a revelation.

This is damage control, plain and simple.

I think that attitude is very naive.

Obamas actions in the near future will reveal all. If he was lied to and deceived, he will apologize publicly and he will reign down vengeance on those who lied to him (unless he is completely spineless and incompetent, which I don't believe he is).

On the other hand, if he knew all along these revelations will simply be played down and it will be business as usual in Washington, DC (although the NSA will probably not make the "mistake" of tapping Washington DC calls instead of Egypt again).

I think your viewpoint is very naive. He will choose the first option whether or not he was actually lied to, if he believes it is his best move.

All I'm saying is that Obama is provably not in command of all the facts needed to prevent a blunder like this. Whether that means he had no idea about the scope of abuse or whether he was simply unaware that anyone would prove his lies wrong is yet to be determined.

Obama's just too smart to make a blunder like this.

When I've watched him being questioned sharply in news conferences he takes it personally. He doesn't like to be challenged by reporters. He has a large enough ego where he could very easily think he has the upper hand and wouldn't be caught.

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