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Comment by wil421 | Hacker News Reader

Lets condemn places like China, Russia, and Syria for they way they limit or monitor electronic communications but when the US and "Friends" do it its for mumble mumble TERRORISTS mumble mumble....

If the laws don't allow us to monitor our citizens lets just change the laws or interpret the words differently.

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Except the US and friends aren't really "doing it" in the same sense that China, Russia, etc are. Those countries develop powerful surveillance capabilities and use them to target political dissent, among other anti-democratic things. Nothing that's been reported about the US comes even close to that sort of usage.

>use them to target political dissent

locking up a dissenter's partner doesn't count, right?

While not specific to NSA programs, the US gov't at the city, state, and federal levels have targeted political organizations, including infiltrating such organizations and tracking the movements of members in such groups. For examples see the information about spying on leftist groups for the 2004 Republican National Convention or how the NYPD targeted and helped dismantle occupy wall street last year.

If FISA makes it illegal to discuss who is getting threatened via secret court orders, how would you remotely know if there are or aren't any chilling affects?

This is an important part of this argument. When we make it illegal to discuss the crime, the warrant, and have secret court proceedings, you can't just sit there on your high horse and tell us there is no abuse. You are not allowed to know of any abuse.

>Nothing that's been reported about the US comes even close to that sort of usage.

Nothing that's been reported. Or Hasn't happened yet....

The US and friends may not be openly targeting and censoring political dissent yet, but clearly the first step is developing the capability. If they develop the capability in an environment without any meaningful oversight or accountability, true abuse is one simple step away.

Hell, they may already be using it for political purposes. How would any of us now barring a whistleblower exposing it? That is why this situation is so dangerous.

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