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Comment by JamisonM | Hacker News Reader

> That is .. government-job level human potential

Plenty of smart talented people work in government, insulting everyone who works in the civil service like that is not only offensive, it is stupid.

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JamisonM, please travel to your local DMV, and while you spend most of your day waiting in the line, repeat to yourself: "My government is behemoth, and therefore large enough to both hire intelligent people for important roles, and also provide sinecures for talentless individuals from groups with political clout for non-vital roles."

And you believe the private sector is any different? If you do, then you haven't worked in any big and rusty corporation where the only reason Joe in Accounting has been there for the past 30 years is because he knows which buttons to click on the legacy system to make the printer spit out the invoices.

I don't know why people still harp on the DMV. Of the two in my area, I've never been in one longer than 20 minutes. They've adopted a worker pool model. You walk in and a greeter assigns you to an appropriate queue based on the type of service you need, and then 3-4 workers consume each queue type. It's stunningly efficient to say the least.

I think the complaints usually start just about after the queues end.

I use the DMV in Redwood City, CA, and efficiency is not my experience there. They have the worker pool model as well. The last time I was there, I was unfortunate to be in the pool with the worker who could barely type. He processed 2-3 customers in an hour, while the Asian gentleman who replaced him at lunch processed 5 times as many. The first gentleman, I assume, is fit for his current position or McDonalds.

I have used stunningly efficient DMVs. They do exist. But the existence of DMVs that do not scrape the bottom of the barrel for hiring, and are more efficient because of it, is proof of my point, if you take a moment to think about it.

What do you have to say about the customer who has the option to schedule an appointment online, disregards that option, and then complains about being subjected to a wait? Severely entitled and unduly convinced of self-superiority come to mind.

That is certainly a possibility. Unless that customer comes from a state with privately run DMVs, and is used to a 5 minute wait without scheduling. Further, it may be that that customer has been greatly impressed by the efficiency and wealth of California's private industry compared to his old state, and was not entirely prepared for the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of California's government.

Jessed, I can tell that you love your government. I'm going to suggest something that you can listen to or not, as you choose: Part of loving your government means examining critiques and saying "how can this be improved?" rather than wearing your heart on your sleeve about it.

Reasonable critique. Not -- the Asian guy was faster so I'm right and government jobs are for iq 85 people.

Which speaks to motivation as much as ability anyway. Thorsten Veblen observed that only the lower and upper classes get what work is for -- the middle classes are the only ones stupid enough to apply all their effort grinding through an imaginary career hierarchy. From that perspective the other guy, no doubt you mean to imply he's black given your other statements, is actually executing the superior strategy.

And actually, here's another thought: it's a good thing for society that we have a place for iq 85 people to contribute and earn a living. I don't hold it against people for having an 85 iq, just like I don't credit people with 150 iqs with an achievement. Those things are largely determined before you're aware of them anyway.

Also: which states have private DMVs with 5-minute waits?

It is not a reasonable critique. He specifically mentioned the faster employee was 'Asian' as a racist dog-whistle. His problem isn't with 'government workers', it's with 'lazy black people'. Don't feed the racist troll.

Yes, I meant that loving one's government requires examining reasonable critiques, not rants about how Asians are faster than blacks at the DMV.

Half of the time when I'm pissed off at the DMV, it's because I stupidly forgot to bring a document that I needed. I'm afraid to admit DMV workers have far more to complain about me than I them.

You seem to have an extremely limited view of government jobs.

The government does need rubbish collectors, DMV personnel, and cleaners, all the way up to engineers, accountants and lawyers. Not to mention policemen, teachers, the defense force.

BTW the DMV is smart enough to realise voters don't care and can save money by having extremely long DMV lines. People working at a DMV can't change anything, and probably care even less.

There are plenty of smart people in government, but working for the government is soul destroying. There are great exceptions, like NASA and other research positions, but largely I think this quote from the Caine Mutiny sums up all government service:

"The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you're not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one."

I suspect you may have cause and effect reversed. Government employment is not soul-destroying; rather, government self-selects applicants from the pool of people who enjoy legal theft and extortion and telling others how to live their lives. It's difficult to destroy a soul that doesn't exist.

I think your analysis is pretty cynical, but not cynical enough. Government employees, as a class, are not interested in doing anything but avoiding work. They certainly don't have any political philosophy driving their actions.

I wish someone had told me that back when I worked in the public sector, all my colleagues too! We thought we were all trying to execute public services well. Is the work avoidance conscious or unconscious? If it was unconscious have I lost it now that I work for myself or am I secretly undermining my own business? Please, tell me all about myself.

Why did you leave public service?

To travel the world.

You're right of course. Government is a model of efficiency. Government workers are often found working late into the night, and if you look at the parking lot at most government agencies at 6PM you'll find them full. You will never see a rush out the door at exactly 4:00. It would be shockingly bad customer service to close the door at 4 when people are waiting, and that's why government offices never do that, expecting you to show up the next morning.

You'll never find that a government worker refuses to show up to do some essential work, even though overtime is not approved. I mean, they are on salary, so it would be crazy of them to demand overtime pay when in any non-government job they would be considered exempt salaried employees and would not qualify for overtime.

Besides these great qualities, government employees are known for how much they try to make the system work for people despite silly bureaucratic rules.

Finally, they treat each other well and respect the institutions they work for. You certainly wouldn't find that government workers routinely sue their employers when they are passed over for promotions with cause. And it would be crazy to imagine a world where hiring and firing were purely seniority based, all government workers want the government to have the best team possible, and they wouldn't support a union contract that put their own job security in front of all semblance of meritocracy.

This comment is pretty hilarious (though not for the reason you apparently intend).

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