Comment by dennykmiu | Hacker News Reader

Comment by dennykmiu | Hacker News Reader

I was fifteen when I came to this country. I didn't speak English. I eventually graduated from high school but since at the time, Chinese was not taught in school, it was not considered a foreign language and therefore could not be used to satisfy the language requirement for getting into University.

Instead, I applied to the local city college and spend the first semester taking high school math, physics and chemistry. Then after two more years, my English improved well enough that I was able to transfer to a four-year school, majoring in engineering. I also worked part-time in a laundry at minimum wage to save enough money so that I can move away from home to finish my degree.

After my bachelor degree, I worked summer before returning to graduate school. Then after my master, I worked a few years before returning to get my Ph.D. Then I worked again and after a few years, took a teaching job at UCLA.

When I was forty years old, I left the comfort of academia to start my first company.

I just took life one step at a time and every step of the way, I didn't ask for any favor, except for a chance to prove myself.

Now after two companies, I am retired.

You can do anything you want in this country, even if you weren't born in this country and didn't even speak the language. Just don't take no for an answer and always accept responsibility for your own failure.

> You can do anything you want in this country, even if you weren't born in this country and didn't even speak the language. Just don't take no for an answer and always accept responsibility for your own failure.

Hot damn, I love the American dream, and I love hard working immigrants who show the rest of us, when we get lazy or self-pitying, how it's done.

Dennykmiu, it's great to have you here in the US. You're an inspiration. Thanks for being here, and thanks for posting!

Hoo-ah!

> You can do anything you want in this country, even if you weren't born in this country and didn't even speak the language. Just don't take no for an answer and always accept responsibility for your own failure.

It is great that you have succeeded and that people with your background can succeed in the US. However I think it's likely you are blessed with some characteristics that others don't have such as

- High intelligence

- High motivation

- The capacity to master another language

- Reasonable mental and physical health

- Some degree of luck (or at least not too much bad luck)

When giving advice for others you should keep in mind that they may not have the same capabilities that you do (I'm not talking about juliusmcfly). The flip side if your attitude is that everyone who isn't successful is substantiatlly to blame for there situation.

@dejb, I was not being condescending and if my comment came across as such, I apologize deeply. I was merely saying that life is short and it is important not to take no for an answer. This is true if you are an immigrant or not. I just happen to be one.

Actually I saw your comments a being the exact opposite of condescending. You aren't speaking from an 'assumed position of superiority' you are actually speaking as if everyone has your capabilities. I'm just putting forward the theory that you are actually better than average in many respects. Maybe assuming everyone can do what you can isn't accurate.

> I was merely saying that life is short and it is important not to take no for an answer. This is true if you are an immigrant or not.

I still agree with your general attitude. Regardless of anyone's abilities an attitude like this is likely to get the best results.

This is true as well. The argument isn't so pretty when you take it to its logical extremes.

It is true, however, that someone with all of those aforementioned traits and opportunities has no excuse. I think people that consistently try hard enough will eventually be blessed with some degree of luck.

Thanks for the reply. Really what I need to hear. I am always impressed with people who come here, adjust to the culture, work hard, and have such great success. Really inspiring.

You can do anything you want in this country

In light of the other comments, I would like to add: not just in the US. You can do that in any civilised country.

The US, UK, Canada etc, yes - countries with long traditions of immigrants both assimilating and contributing to their culture. It's an order of magnitude more difficult in a country without that tradition. Most places in the world, immigrants with no ties to the country are an economic and social underclass, with just the occasional success. Try being Moroccan in France or Turkish in Germany. There're very few places where there's even close to a level playing field.

Try being an African American in the US? There's always history and other contingent circumstances to consider. In that light it is unfair to compare a Chinese immigrant in the US with a Moroccan immigrant in France. At least compare them to a Chinese immigrant in France.

BTW, I think Turks in Germany are actually doing very well.

> Try being an African American in the US

Yeah, you might end up as president.

Yeah, in gaius' words 'you might have occasional successes'. African Americans are as much 'an economic and social underclass' in the US as Moroccans are in France.

There's always a STUPID comment made on every site, any given moment and at any given second of the day.. The prize goes to... "Confusion"... the name says it all..

Are you even following the discussion? Are 'African Americans' such a touchy subject that your capacity to comprehend what is being said is failing you when someone mentions them as being 'a social and economic underclass'? That is not a judgment or moral statement about them: it is simply a factual statement about their predicament. It is about what is the state of affairs in the world.

Let me spell this exchange out for you:

- Several comments applaud the US for allowing immigrants to succeed.

- I point out that it's not the US, it's the OP. He could have succeeded in all of western civilization, as immigrants do.

- Gaius thinks only the US, UK and Canada are 'countries with long traditions of immigrants both assimilating and contributing to their culture'. He especially thinks Turks in Germany and Moroccans in France are 'an economic and social underclass'.

- I point out that this has to do with historical factors: there are many Moroccans in France, because it was a French colony for a long time. You could practically consider those Maroccans French. I point out that for those reasons, they are more comparable to African Americans, who also happen to be 'an economic and social underclass' (if that term applies to Moroccans in France, it applies to African Americans in the US. I'm going along with the discussion here, not arguing about a term I may not like). On the other hand, Algerians are well integrated in French society, as are Turks in Germany.

- Someone completely misses the point, because he mentions something that gaius himself had already covered as not being a good argument. (Perhaps it was only a joke?)

- I rehash the original point

Now if you would please care to explain what is stupid about that?

Here are the issues with your points

1) Perhaps it was only a joke

If you want to be taken seriously this doesn't work when addressing an often times sensitive topic .. Communication 101.

2) You stated ... I point out that this has to do with historical factors: there are many Moroccans in France, because it was a French colony for a long time. You could practically consider those Maroccans French.

A Moroccan would never consider themselves french. (if your interested in references no problem) Thats calling an Assyrian and Iraqi or white or jewish..

3) You quoted.. African Americans are as much 'an economic and social underclass' in the US as Moroccans are in France.

This is where you quoted Gaius then added the note above.. Don't hide behind a quote from someone else then add your own statement and then attempt to pass it off as the original statement.

4) You stated.. It is about what is the state of affairs in the world

How does this beginning comment and the subsequent comments thereafter address the question of the original author? I see a point possibly that he can make it regardless of his socio-economic status and that others has.. just say it.. keep it simple your going into dangerous territory otherwise... you message gets vague.. and losses its point and got clouded with your own statement which was pass off as a quote by Gaius..

Turks born in Germany weren't even legal citizens until 2000. "Well integrated" is not accurate. Algerians aren't well integrated into French society, either. Your points are stupid because they are off topic and aren't correct. You're just making shit up.

If someone is making shit up, it's you. For instance, foreigners born in Germany have always been legal citizens, if they chose to accept the German citizenship offered to them.

Actually, you are incorrect. Chinese, on average, are massively disproportionately (as compared to other immigrants) economically successful wherever they migrate to.

Maybe you meant to say there is always an ironic comment made on every website?? lol

Honestly, could you point me to any substantial documentation of Af-Americans putting in the same amount of work but running into barriers? I realize they are largely at the bottom of the rung, but it is my perception that it is largely because of a culture of refusing to "sell out", ie: learn to speak proper english, drop the attitude, delay gratification, etc.

Yes I fully realize this is a racist attitude, but I honestly haven't seen anything noteworthy to make me think otherwise.

(FWIW...I think a ridiculously large proportion of "whites" are incredibly unskilled and unintelligent as well....but it seems to me they don't put effort into it, they are just accidentally incompetent).

You admit to making racist comments, but seem to be very confident in your thoughts, and you seem to be a bright guy how can you be so certain of your self-admitted unintelligent views. Your perspective is a perspective taken by most who lacks understanding. I appreciate that. I even appreciate your opinion. I realize that you admit that they are limited to your world of perspective, by adopting racist views,understand that they lack perspective and significant thought. We are all limited by our perspective and to speak with limited perspective is to speak often time foolishly. I'm sure you have people that may listen to you and that may look up to you. Do the world a favor and simply state that what you say are based on your opinion and your perspective is limited.

That's your disclaimer.

I think maybe you missed my point....I was questioning the statement: "African Americans are as much 'an economic and social underclass' in the US as Moroccans are in France."

I think we can accept this as a general truth, correct? My question was related to why this is, as in, is this position deserved (as in, not earning a better position, in the aggregate), or is it due to being underrewarded for performing the same work as other classes.

I was hoping someone could point me in the direction of studies on this specific angle. As noted, I am fully aware that my current best guess on this is racist, that is not my question....my question is, is it correct (despite being racist). I know all "broad minded" people such as yourself "know" everyone is equal, but others, such as myself, prefer some study into it. All I have to go on from my perspective in life is what I see/encounter, and people's opinions (often based on only a theory).

JuliusMcfly, sought insight and understanding to his problem, its obvious that you and confusion lacks insight and understanding in other areas (expousing racist views) and are willing to speak without sound judgement,insight and substantial reference, how can julius or anyone else bank on your opinion in this forum or any other? Its obvious that your opinion will be misinformed,unreliable, deviates from the issue at hand and wrapped with distorted and arrogant views.

All of this is "obvious" to you?

Do you think, just maybe, that you're reading a bit too much into my question??

You made some interesting points here.. I think you are a man of science and being such a theory you hold based on seemingly limited facts is never published.

The statement made the US African Amerians are to Moraccans to France. The premise I can never agree upon. France has never had a Moraccan president. Until then I can't agree to your premise. An there being at Least 100 more reasons why the parrellal can never be drawn.. I would say that it was a reach.. My encouragement to you is to continue to live and seek and an understanding. Talk to people and, that is where books come from.. The experience of someone else. Enjoy some for yourself.. Believe me it enriches life..

That's not right. Many countries have a very unlevel playing field.

It's stories like this that sometimes make me wish I had moved to the US.

The American Dream is truly a wonderful concept.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com