Comment by tikhonj | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tikhonj | Hacker News Reader

In my view, one of the largest problems Haskell has--much like Linux--is that it's hard to get started. There is quite a bit of incidental complexity: you have to install the compiler (or Haskell Platform), set up an editor, learn about cabal and so on.

Partly because of this, Haskell is never the "default" choice--if you set out to "learn programming", you'll be quickly herded to JavaScript, Java, Python or, god forbid, PHP. The only people learning Haskell are the ones who set out to learn Haskell.

Hopefully a nice web-based, turnkey development environment will really help with the upfront cost. Now to learn Haskell somebody just has to go to the website and start.

Of course, interactive tutorials for Haskell would make for an even nicer introduction. And hey, the same company behind this IDE has something like that: the School of Haskell[1]! It lets readers edit and run Haskell code snippets right in the browser, which should make picking up the basics even easier.

[1]: https://www.fpcomplete.com/school

It's very gratifying to see people chipping away at one of the main walls to Haskell adoption.

I don't think it's too hard to get started. While the Haskell website itself could and should be a bit prettier and more organized to highlight this, the Haskell platform itself is a one click install and pretty easy to get started with. That gets you up and running with everything you need to start learning the ecosystem.

http://www.haskell.org/platform/

What FPComplete is doing is phenomenal for corporate adoption because big companies like to mitigate risk by having some support options and tools available.

Personally, I think regardless of the rate of popular adoption, Haskell is a phenomenal tool to have at your disposal and more programmers should start learning it and building systems with it. The learning curve is ridiculously high compared to most other languages because you're going to have to change a big part about how you think about solving problems, but its a fun ride.

Personally I think the developer site needs to be somewhat professional for me to even consider it. I'm by no means a great programmer but if I were to stumble upon the Haskell website, I would immediately shy away for the the extremely low-res background image

Yeah, that image gets a lot of commentary.

The Platform has a seasonal theme and one of the maintainers thought the flower represented Spring well. I think it'd be okay if the seasonal theme were more obvious instead of being entirely a codename... and in the future the design probably ought to be more austere.

The IDE being $75 a month seems to add an entirely new wall to Haskell adoption, at least via this method.

To me the syntax has always stopped me.

What's wrong with the syntax?

I believe the developers of this IDE are contemplating adding a "personal" account since the current price is a little prohibitive for hobby usage.

As for the syntax of Haskell, I think it makes a lot of sense when you consider that the language is fundamentally declarative. The syntax could be a big nuisance if you don't really grok the Haskell way of thinking. It's a bit like vim in that sense: until you realize that the different commands basically form a language for manipulating text, with different units of action that can be combined in natural ways, the modal environment of vim would probably seem like more of a nuisance than anything else.

What does it mean to say that a programming language is "fundamentally declarative"?

It means Haskell is a declarative language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarative_programming

It's quite expensive, so unlikely to become a popular choice for programming noobs.

The personal license will be very affordable for hobby use.

Tools aren't a serious barrier - the Haskell Platform one-click install works quite ok out of the box with Sublime Text or Notepad+; you don't need to set up anything else, just copy an example from some tutorial in the editor, press the default run shortcut, and it works.

If you really need an IDE, there's http://www.leksah.org/ that's free.

On the other hand, School of Haskell and tutorials are very useful. But [e-]books like "Learn you a haskell for great good " are also quite ok for people who are just learning programming.

Yes! Because the biggest problem with Haskell adoption was not having a place to give $75/month to.

On the serious side. I've often wanted to learn Haskell, but not coming from a functional background makes it hard. Also I think idiomatic Haskell might be great for Haskell coders, but it's hard for anyone who comes new to functional and wants to learn by reading code.

I don't really think there's anything that can or should be done about this. It feels like saying Spanish is great for Spanish speakers but it's opaque to everyone else.

The personal license will be cheap for hobby use.

I don't think that even registers as a problem at all, much less one of the largest ones. Installing haskell platform is the entire process, and is as simple as installing any other program. There's literally no difference vs python or ruby or go or anything else. The language is the barrier to entry, not the tools.

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