Hacker News Reader

Hacker News's hipsterism, consisting in necessarily the top comment being about how everything about the link is bullshit, is really getting old.

In this case, it is just ridiculous. The speech is serious and articulate, it touches a lot of important points, and defines a set of actions going forward.

And, it makes me want to do business with brazilian-based companies, once the announced more autonomous technologies are put in place. The internet needs to be decentralised again, and this is exactly the kind of step that can lead there. If the technological alternative offered in brazilian soil holds, I would definitively move all of my cloud footprint there.

" it makes me want to do business with brazilian-based companies, once the announced more autonomous technologies are put in place."

ONCE.... Please do not wait do now... I am still waiting for speed rail here in Brazil, Cheap gas or electricity and Less than 44% of my GDP in Taxes.

But please do not take my 'hispterism' because I live in a bubble here in Brazil (native) and lived 3 years in US and 1 year in Middle East. I just came to the terms that after 35 years here we are STILL blaming US for 'everything' and we do not have nothing to blame us....strange..

"here in Brazil (native)"

Ah, that explains your negativism against the Brazilian president.

For the benefit of the foreign audience: President Dilma faces fierce opposition from the Brazilian elite, because of her party's socialist reforms, in a country that historically always catered to the elites. Anything that the president does (good or bad) faces opposition, pretty similar to the opposition President Obama faces in the US.

Note how the commenter above does not say a word about the speech itself. It's all about paying so much taxes and not getting the speed rail.

(also a native-Brazilian here who lived 8 years in the US and 2 in China)

So only foreigners can complain?

I did not get the speed rail or electricity But I did get 12 SOCCER STADIUM that will do no good to the country..

If I am 'elite' damn... this country is in very baaaaad shape

Now comes our 'nationalists' team... Glad you learn in China

We hear you and believe you are correct about the problems in Brazil. However, its not really the point of this discussion... why I think you're receiving some negativity.

No, I never said only foreigners can complain. And I am far from nationalist: Like I said, I am normally the first one to criticize Brazil, and I was accused of being "unpatriotic" on every country I lived, so I am pretty sure my views are balanced.

I am just explaining to the (mostly foreigner) audience that your comments are connected to the local Brazilian politics, but this is not the point of this discussion.

I wander where did you get all this "serious data" and statements over Brazil ?

about Spying: NO one country has this mass surveilance state patronized by public money in the world. its proven.. its scary, and its US..

This must stop, period.

if every citizen take care of its own country actions.. so they do not interfere badly with the other countries.. we would be just fine..

Anyway.. this happening its a warning to all of us.. we should listen carefully, and take good measures about it.. cause in peace time, they might look harmles or like a joke.. but in war time, or with dictatorships, they might have severe consequences

It doesn't seem like you disproved the claim that Brazil aggressively spies on its own citizens and, thus, that this is hypocritical populist rhetoric.

> if every citizen take care of its own country actions.. so they do not interfere badly with the other countries.. we would be just fine..

The US's spy complex is a MUCH bigger threat to those of us here in the US than it is to those abroad, and anyway there is nothing we citizens can do to stop it anytime soon, so don't hold your breath.

>It doesn't seem like you disproved the claim that Brazil aggressively spies on its own citizens and, thus, that this is hypocritical populist rhetoric.

It can do whatever it want on it's own citizens. If they don't like it, they can vote them out of the office.

It's a third country spying on them (or on my country) I don't like.

But the US can't violate your rights unless you're here.

Not really.

For one, if I'm a business owner/scientist/engineer working on some stuff, they can do "industrial espionage" and give the stuff (or a heads up) to US companies/the army/whoever.

Second, they can use their spying on a country's politicians to influence that country's policy (like spying on a party they don't like in favor of a party that serve's their interests), do market and diplomatic moves against them, etc.

Third, who said foreigners never travel to the US?

I have serious objections the the NSAs domestic spying and foreign surveillance of civilians in other countries. Unfortunately, like any major power, US foreign surveillance is not going to go away because 1) everyone else does it and 2) there's no way to verify that other countries have stopped even if they did.

If you read the history of arms control talks between the US and the USSR, the only reason they worked was because both parties could verify that the other was honoring the agreement. The Russians could physically look at satellite photos and verify the US actually removed some of its ICBMs and vice versa.

There is no way to verify a country is not spying on you. As such, no country, no matter their rhetoric, is going to actually give up that ability for the hope that others do so as well. It's a suckers bet.

The solution to privacy in the face of foreign dragnet surveillance is cryptography.

> The solution to privacy in the face of foreign dragnet surveillance is cryptography.

I agree with you on that.. of course defensive matters must come to aid this dragnet environment..

We cannot put the genie back in the bottle anymore,once he came out..

But,together with preventive and defensive measures, politically we must make our governments and rule makers to stand in favor of privacy, writing more severe laws against mass surveilance, that do not obey any court order for particular citizens....

Even if they lie, and they tell us they do so.. once we catch them lying, like right now, we can do something about it, in the political sphere.. their political position are defenseless

For instance, Companies in US right now need to fight politically over this, because even the economy is in danger..

So i think this is a battle that should be fight in two fronts.. If we pick just one of them, we will lost in the long term

> 1) everyone else does it

I am from Slovenia, our entire GDP is lower than what CIA and NSA get.

I am pretty sure that our government spying doesn't come even remotely close to what USA (and others in 5 eyes) does.

Maybe Russia and China have similar ambitions, nobody else comes close (France is probably envious, but their capabilities are limited).

So out of nearly 200 countries maybe half a dozen have similar programs. I would't call that everybody.

(Most other countries limit their spying to relevant local threats.)

PS: That doesn't mean that various spies in other countries don't have wet dreams about having similar capability to US, but that's all they have dreams.

GPS in cars is an interesting one. Where does the Brazilian government mandate that the data is stored/transmitted, then?

You have to note that if you carry a mobile phone the state has easy access to equivalent data anyway (even when you're not in a car), so the reality is most people are providing it regardless of car GPS-related rules. (Co-presence of other device, movement time, and a rudimentary analysis of movement speed would be adequate information to determine one's probable mode of transport and activity profile ... habitual commute, unexpected deviation from established norm, etc.)

I was in Denmark recently and was reliably advised that the government tax department needs no warrant to access mobile phone location records for validation purposes. No warrant. On top of that, ATMs are curiously hard to find and businesses cannot spend over 10,000DKR/year in cash without triggering a government audit. Brazil is clearly not alone.

The sad fact is that most people are unaware, and the majority of the world is either sleepwalking in to totalitarianism or is there already.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that as system designers, builders or more (in-)directly as promoters of tech-fetishism, we in this community are equally at fault. We each have a responsibility to resist the construction and use of easily corrupted centralized systems and to educate those around us about their dangers.

According to some interpretations, anonimity is not forbidden, it's "just" that it's not considered protected speech. [1]

In any case, it's true that Brazil doesn't really have real free speech in the sense Americans do. We have a nominal right to free speech per the Constitution, but there are so many loopholes: draconian slander laws, protection to candidates before elections, etc.

[1] http://www.conjur.com.br/2013-set-06/rodrigo-dornelles-veto-... (in Portuguese)

Wrong AGAIN.... Please read the CONSTITUTION[1]

A.G.A.I.N Constitution

In portuguese: "IV - é livre a manifestação do pensamento, sendo vedado o anonimato; "

Translation : - Freedom of speech but anonymity is vetted

[1] = http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/constituicao/constituic...

--Edited to do not appear arrogant --

The anonymity concept is one of pillars of privacy and democracy there are several articles about that but this sums up well [1]

So before our 'leader' bashes US to get some popularity votes can we fix our house first?

[1[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/right-anonymity-matter...

The parent commenter is correct: This is specific to speech, and not in general. You also have not explained how your argument invalidates President Dilma's UN speech.

(side note: you don't need to be arrogant like that to defend your point. The parent commenter was respectful in his/her response)

Many other countries also do not have free-speech in the strict sense that the US guarantees in its Constitution. For example, in Germany one cannot protest in favor of neo-nazis, and in South Korea one cannot praise the North Korean regime. In the US any kind of speech is allowed, except for rare libel cases (which are extremely difficult to prove in court).

None of that invalidates President Dilma's point. I am actually the first one to criticize Brazil's lack of democracy, for example in the favelas (which are areas controlled by the drug traffickers and not by the state, and thus without real democracy), but in the international sphere she is absolutely right to raise the issue, as Brazil is an US ally and there was no reasonable explanation for the espionage whatsoever, especially to top-level officials. Furthermore, Petrobras is a oil exploration company -- This is effectively industrial espionage.