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Comment by realitygrill | Hacker News Reader

I use melatonin regularly to regulate my sleep cycle. It's a very effective part of a regimen (sleep hygiene, f.lux, etc) that allows me to manage a nearly-decade long problem of insomnia.

However, from a psychological standpoint, it's a very good thing melatonin is so safe. Every single person I've ever recommended melatonin to, I've directed to this article and discussed it with them. Every single such person then went ahead to promptly forget the discussion, NOT read the article, and take mildly retarded doses. For example, "one (5mg) pill didn't work, so I took 8 more at 4am." Another uses it almost recreationally - large doses to intensify his dreams; pretty much zero attempt to use it to improve his sleep. I don't talk to people about melatonin anymore.

For a quicker idea of where melatonin sits vis-à-vis other sleep drugs (WARNING: Hilarious Ambien Walrus referenced): http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/28/sleep-now-by-prescripti...

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This whole discussion is starting to make me feel reckless in a hilariously inconsequential way. I literally said to myself "I think people take melatonin when they have trouble sleeping...", went to the drug store, bought a bottle, and started taking the dose it recommended, at the time it recommended. Apparently I skipped out on a whole bunch of research I was supposed to have done.

Hey, at least you aren't taking ridiculous doses. I'm pretty cautious about such things so I prefer the research.

I have terrible sleep habits and often find it difficult to fall asleep before 5am. I have been considering trying melatonin but my major concern is that I will become dependent on it. I don't want my body to stop producing whatever small amount it already does through its use as a supplement.

How dependent on it would you say you are? How well would you function if you were unable to get hold of it?

It's very unlikely that you will become dependent on Melatonin, it's simply not addictive. It isn't a sleeping pill either, it mainly supports an existing sleep disposition. If you don't want to sleep, you won't sleep.

Since you are here, I'm going to assume you are looking at a screen at least some of the time when you are awake that late.

You might consider installing blue-light reduction software like f.lux - it's drastically improved my ability to fall asleep late at night.

Thanks. I use f.lux already and it's great (it makes my eyes feel a lot better) but hasn't really helped me fall asleep. I think I am going to try a no back-lit screens after 23:00 rule.

I don't feel any physiological dependence, as I go on and off it with no consequences that I can detect (other than becoming more prone to slip off my sleep schedule). Generally I only take melatonin daily when I'm adjusting to a new timezone/schedule or have lapsed by purposely staying up. Otherwise I use it maybe twice a week, and have gone months without any.

When I don't take it my sleeping time seems to be a function of sleep hygiene.. Your melatonin production cycles are probably most strongly controlled by zeitgeber factors, like the mentioned blue light wavelengths. My insomnia used to be as bad as yours and now it's fairly normal for me to fall asleep at 1am, even using the computer. Once you get in a pattern, it has some persistence to it.

It's not addictive. In fact I found myself not wanting to take it after a while because I had so much energy from getting good sleep, I wanted to stay up late doing stuff. (Even though I should, so I get to sleep at a decent hour.)

I recommended 1mg per 50lbs of body weight, and get the fast acting one, not the slow-dissolving one; those made me drowsy the next morning.

It is a little harder to snap to attention right after waking up, but I shake that off quickly; probably a sign I slept well.

It does affect everyone differently though. I haven't had any negative effects myself, other than with the slow-dissolving "long-lasting" pills (but some might need that to stay asleep).

Interesting. I'm not sure I've seen extended-release melatonin. IIRC melatonin does not help you stay asleep, so that would be fairly useless.

I recommend starting at the smallest dose you can find designed for sublingual (under-the-tongue dissolving) administration. 0.3mg to 1mg is a good range.

Hmm. The article specifically says that disappearance of melatonin enables waking.

This is the extended release one that made me sleepy the next day:

http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/node/1418

This is the one I use that works great:

http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/chocolate_mint_melatonin

Use 500mcg pills. It only takes around 300mcg to get the full effects of melatonin. Once you reach around 1mg, your body will quickly adapt and it will lose effectiveness.

I used 300mcg for months and months, slept better, had vivid dreams, and the effect didn't change. I switched to 500mcg pills from Trader Joe's only because the 300mcg pills stopped being carried locally.

Source: an in-depth article I read years ago that I can never seem to find.

what about feedback effect and pineal gland attrofiation?

every hormone that you have in excess of what the body expects, have compensation of the opposing message hormone, feedback effect. anyone has any idea which one is for this case?

another consequence is that the original producer of such hormone will get de prioritized by the body and atrophies after too much time. does this happen here?

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