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Comment by twoodfin | Hacker News Reader

I wonder what the split on Nest thermostat sales is between new construction/refurb builder/contractor installations vs. "end user". Whatever it is, I think the smoke detector will be more skewed towards the former.

$129 is a lot for a consumer, especially without all the immediately tangible and potentially cost-saving benefits of the thermostat. But for a developer selling a condo, being able to advertise "Nest fixtures throughout" might be worth $1000.

I love my pair of Nest thermostats, but don't feel motivated to buy this.

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The link text says "Smoke Detector", but I only found "Smoke Alarm" on the Nest page. I used to work for a smoke detector manufacturer. It's been over 10+ years, but there was a clear delineation between home "smoke alarms" and commercial "smoke detectors". Detectors had central monitoring and usually were linked to an outside service. Alarms were standalone and sold to consumers.

One thing that's interesting is that the video shows it uses photoelectric smoke detection. Most home systems use ionic detection, which is better for large particulates. When these sound, either the house is already on fire or you burnt the steak. Photoelectric detectors are better for detecting small particulates - the smoke before the fire - and they are less prone to false alarms.

So, in other words, for $129, you're at least buying a quality smoke alarm?

Also, is the terminology not regulated? Their alert system seems to indicate that this would be a detector, not an alarm.

I don't think the definition of detector is a stretch here, depending on how Next implements it. The units will talk to each other, so presumably there is a master node playing the monitor role, and it could certainly phone home in an event same as the thermostat unit does.

> Most home systems use ionic detection, which is better for large particulates. ... Photoelectric detectors are better for detecting small particulates - the smoke before the fire - and they are less prone to false alarms.

Other way around. Ionization detectors are more sensitive to small particles, while photoelectric detectors are more sensitive to large particles.

Large fires tend to burn "cleanly," producing smoke particles that are not too visible. While smoldering fires tend to produce lots of visible smoke -- the type that a photoelectric detector will identify.

https://www.firemarshals.org/rfsi/smokealarmfacts.html

> Other way around.

[Slaps forehead.] I got the fire type / particle size reversed. The sad thing is I actually took the fire marshal's exam on the subject. But I guess, like in college, the moment I walked out of the exam room my mind became a clean slate.

> $129 is a lot for a consumer

Is it, really? I mean couples routinely blow that on 1-2 dinners out without any thought at all, at least in the demographic they're targeting. You're paying something like a 2x purchase cost for a much smarter, well-connected device – that seems well within the range that upscale consumers will pay for almost any sort of better made appliance or furnishing.

It's way more than two times purchase cost. You can get a smoke detector and CO2 alarm for ~$20.

Wouldn't I need one for every room? In my modest house that'd be $129 x 7 = $903!

$903, right?

Yes, typo corrected.

Most fire departments will also give them to you for free. My brother is a professional fire fighter and always has a box of them in the back of his truck to hand out to people. They'll even do volunteer events where they'll come and inspect your house to make sure you have proper placement and they're not too old.

At $60 each I might replace the 5 I have in my house, at $130 I don't think so.

As other people have pointed out, the Nest detector uses photoelectric detection and multiple of them will link together. Comparing it to a $20 ionic detector is apples to oranges.

A photoelectric smoke detector seems to be around $20 on Amazon and CO alarm is ~$30, so you're right - it's between 2-3 times more. I was basing my comment on the actual pricing seen on the shelf at hardware stores here (DC), which is higher.

That said, it's hard to compare the base price without starting to talk about features: i.e. the cheaper detectors on sale around here tend not to have things like the LED needed to tell which of 5 alarms is currently going off. That part costs a few pennies but the pricing jump to get it much higher, at least for what was on offer at my local Home Depot last year when we replaced everything.

I just replaced every smoke alarm in my 2 story (plus basement) house for $100. that's more like 6x the cost.

In my area building codes require they install smoke and CO detectors. One such contractor just advertised their new condos as being super intelligent.

$129 isn't that much for a household product though. Think of how much people spend on furniture, or bedding, or fancy kitchen gadgets.

You need more than one smoke detector... If you only have one you're doing it very wrong.

Having recently bought a newly built house, I'd say that it's more likely that they'd offer the option of Nest fixtures throughout for the low, low price of only $1,000 extra.

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