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Comment by 6ren | Hacker News Reader

PHP has some ugliness, but in what way are any of these specific features bad?

"- I want the same language in my controllers, in my db code AND in my templates"

I read that as "let me mix them together like a PHP spaghetti app". The original poster may not have meant that, but after 13 years of writing PHP, the common complaint I still hear from newbies is "but structuring my code/using a framework has such a steep learning curve!". I'd rather like separation of concern enforced at the language level :)

And no, I don't have a clue how that'd work ;)

Their complaint is valid imho. They can use PHP to learn the basics of programming, and after this, as the next logical step, learn to structure their code. PHP is a bad language to get started with to learn programming for a number of different reasons (much worse than Python or Javascript), and this is why it would be cool to have the "PHP way" but based on a different language.

...now, I first learned coding by solving algorithmic math problems in C, but if someone would've tried to make me learn C++ or Java and OOP at that point I would've had the same complaint your newbies are having about "why learn so much just to 'structure' my code?!" :)

He didn't say implementing those functions in the same code, but using the "same language". To me, PHP's use in templates is pretty much its core idea. I think it's a good idea, and basically defines what a ruby/python version would be like.

Unfortunately it also makes possible the abuse you note - hopefully there's better solutions than requiring a different language in those 3 places.

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