I thought there was a consensus in this community on how the leading traders just squeeze money out of all other wannabe sharks. The skills I find most relevant are low ethics and networking (not the technological type of networking).
Oh, wait. Did I just say the same thing you did? I'm sorry. Carry on.
The consensus I'm more favorable to on HN is avoiding knee-jerk insults to people who you don't even know.
I'm not wild about HFT myself, but these sorts of nasty comments are something I would prefer not to see in this community.
Because I've made comments in the same vein, I had given some thought to the matter before posting them. You are, of course, right. These are gross generalizations, and I think most readers here would recognize them as such. However, I think that another principle trumps here, and that is setting a sort of "baseline" ethics. The HN community is composed mostly of engineers, who for centuries have had the tendency to concentrate on the technical challenge at hand rather than the social and moral ramifications of their products. By establishing a certain crude (I admit) sentiment that HFT is "wrong unless proven otherwise", or, at the very least, that it demands some serious thought before engaging in, we draw a blurry, faint red line that we, as engineers, should pay attention to. Naturally, this applies to all undertakings, but in our community, HFT serves as a suitable exemplar. I think.
Are HF traders known to be objectively more “evil” people than others in the finance industry, or vicars of country churches, or social workers, or cabinet ministers? If so, I’d love to see the studies.
Now, people are hardly ever "evil", and they certainly never consider themselves evil. But even strangers would hardly call traders evil; they're just... how shall I put this... if you know some people working on (in?) Wall Street then you know the type. Of course, there are plenty of technical people working on the highly technical aspects of HFT with little regard to the domain itself, who don't fit the prototype; still, there are very few idealists in that industry.
Well, I don't know anyone working on Wall Street and I don't know the "type." Can you give concrete examples or details to substantiate your claim and make it specific? What is it in particular that you object to about these people?
No offense, but as a disclaimer, I don't want to come across as giving your claim too much credence. In the abstract, any form of trading is a life-supporting activity (someone is voluntarily choosing to trade with you to mutual benefit) and thus is noble, other factors being equal (e.g. you're not committing fraud, etc.).
That said, I’m not sure that HFT is ‘worse’ than other sectors of the finance world, or law, or consulting, for this particular vibe.
My theory is you all hate it because its based out of Chicago/NY/London and not SF and you are like kids excluded from a club you can't get into.
Software people in HFT and other trading related systems are just smart people who want to solve interesting problems. Same as everywhere else.
b) Trying isn't enough. A billion blown is a billion blown, it doesn't matter what your intentions are - and if it does, I'm sure most HFT-traders are convinced that they are benefiting society and the economy.
c) People are also making a living of off money spend in HFT-space, regardless of what their intentions are.
We don't even need traders for traditional risk-reducing options trading for farmers and manufacturers.
> The only thing business with shareholders wants is maximizing the profits.
In the US, generally yes. In other countries (like Germany), businesses have other goals, like providing sustenance to workers.
By definition (almost), ethics is the systematic study of what one should or should not do. Are you suggesting ignoring the systematic study of what one should or should not do when one has to decide what one should or should not do?
> then suddenly you are not able to work for a lot of companies...
Well, every person has their own levels of comfort with various practices. Ethics doesn't give you clear-cut answers, it's just a way to think about decisions.